Chineese Hummers

[DUG]

Indeed, it is unfortunate that the Chinese continue to gobble up American interests and no doubt this is an inevitable byproduct of the current economy. However, those who perpetuate the myth that H2’s (2008 or newer) are overblown Tahoes have never owned one, compared them side by side, or even driven one, for that matter. Think what you may, the new H2 (2008 and newer) is a quantum leap from the older models.

I was ready to purchase a new 2006 H1 and had altogether cast off the idea of an H2 because of this “Tahoe” thing. After talking to a few mechanics I began looking into it and discovered that two have little in common including a small section of frame and GM’s ubiquitous trim components. Other than few similiarities, they are very different vehicles altogether built in different plants. The H1 is an outstanding vehicle and I have driven them extensively in their civilian and military versions but they are just not as practical and I didn’t feel like having another vehicle that only gets driven a few times a year.

While the Tahoe is a nice truck, it pales in comparison to the H2. The H2’s drivetrain components are far more robust; it has 393hp and is a real pleasure to drive at 80mph on the highway or in two feet of snow. It is heavier than a full-size Suburban and its wheelbase is only seven inches shorter making for an exceptional ride on any surface. For a vehicle this size, it is well-mannered and quiet on the road but has the cohones to get you where you need to go here in Colorado.

The numbers don’t lie.

H2 specs

Wheelbase 122.8
Width 81.2
Curb weight 6,641
Payload 2,200
Trailering 8,200


Tahoe specs

Wheelbase 116.0
Width 79.0
Curb weight 5,387-5,581
Payload 1,721-1,913
Trailering 5,621-6,000

Notice the substantial difference of about 1,100lbs in curb weight between the two.

One night on my way home, I was waiting to turn at a stoplight when a guy (who had fallen asleep at the wheel) hit me head on 45mph. The traffic investigator told me that if I had been in another SUV such as many of the Japanese makes, I would have likely been a fatality. The other guy left the scene on a stretcher. The most surprising thing is that my “totaled” Hummer was DRIVEN into the body shop for appraisal. Guarantee you couldn’t do that with a Tahoe or most other SUV’s.

I drove and considered every SUV above $50,000 including the Porsche Cayenne, Audi, BMW, Suburban, Range Rover, and several others, and there really is no vehicle that does everything quite as well as the H2. Only thing they should add is a diesel which is already completed in prototype. Think what you may about Hummers, if you possess the financial wherewithal to purchase a new SUV/truck in this price range, you owe it to yourself to give it serious consideration. You will not be disappointed.

How much TORQUE does that dressed up Tahoe have? I have a feeling that the resale value is about to tank now that a "Made by China" label is about to be pasted on.

So the H2 is 10% more SUV than a Tahoe at only twice the price. Good deal man. I have the bucks to drive WHATEVER I want, but there's no way I'm driving an H2 or an H3.

 

[D-Man]

Dug,

Whether you are aware of this or not, many things you own and use have some connection with China - globalization. C'est la vie. Hey, India owns Jaguar and Land Rover, have their prices tanked?

As I have mentioned, it is too bad that American brands are being assimilated by foreign interests.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the "dressed up Tahoe". I know many GM mechs would disagree with you, though as this is unfounded and merely propagandistic bandwagon banter that is ostensibly fun to engage in. This has no doubt been exacerbated by the fact that Hummers have been blinged out by people who don't use them for their intended purpose, but you can’t argue with the fact that it is a capable vehicle, more so than most.

I don't need another truck - have a sweet M939A2 that hauls anything I want it to. Have a dedicated truck I use for towing and a brand new 2009 BMW X6 5.0 with 400hp that is fast enough, even at this altitude. The H2 is a very capable vehicle that goes places that our new 2500 diesel cannot and does it more comfortably. Like I said, I would have purchased a new 2006 H1, but I found it less than practical for every day driving. I work hard in a civilian capacity and serve in the military and have been very fond of the HMMWV - the H2 seemed like a good compromise.

Since you can buy 'WHATEVER' you want, what high-end SUV's/trucks/vehicles do you OWN or suggest purchasing in lieu of a "Tahoe"?

Have you even driven the Tahoe or the '09 H2 side by side?

I shall presume, based on your comments, that you can enlighten all of us to the similiarities between the two vehicles. If I have ignorantly spent twice the price on a vehicle that you claim is merely a Tahoe, then I respectfully ask to you to substantiate your claim with evidence as I wish to avoid further fiscal errors such as this in the future.

 

[drgreg]

I still like my Excursion, I don't know how the stats compare to the H2, but it is the nicest SUV I have owned.

 

[DUG]

Dug,

Whether you are aware of this or not, many things you own and use have some connection with China - globalization. C'est la vie. Hey, India owns Jaguar and Land Rover, have their prices tanked?

As I have mentioned, it is too bad that American brands are being assimilated by foreign interests.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the "dressed up Tahoe". I know many GM mechs would disagree with you, though as this is unfounded and merely propagandistic bandwagon banter that is ostensibly fun to engage in. This has no doubt been exacerbated by the fact that Hummers have been blinged out by people who don't use them for their intended purpose, but you can’t argue with the fact that it is a capable vehicle, more so than most.

I don't need another truck - have a sweet M939A2 that hauls anything I want it to. Have a dedicated truck I use for towing and a brand new 2009 BMW X6 5.0 with 400hp that is fast enough, even at this altitude. The H2 is a very capable vehicle that goes places that our new 2500 diesel cannot and does it more comfortably. Like I said, I would have purchased a new 2006 H1, but I found it less than practical for every day driving. I work hard in a civilian capacity and serve in the military and have been very fond of the HMMWV - the H2 seemed like a good compromise.

Since you can buy 'WHATEVER' you want, what high-end SUV's/trucks/vehicles do you OWN or suggest purchasing in lieu of a "Tahoe"?

Have you even driven the Tahoe or the '09 H2 side by side?

I shall presume, based on your comments, that you can enlighten all of us to the similiarities between the two vehicles. If I have ignorantly spent twice the price on a vehicle that you claim is merely a Tahoe, then I respectfully ask to you to substantiate your claim with evidence as I wish to avoid further fiscal errors such as this in the future.

I drove every SUV on the market before buying my 2005 Suburban LT. It was the best value for the money at the time and I was completely happy with it. Last year though I got bored and decided I wanted a truck so I picked up a 2500HD GMC. I mean the Burb could pull 8800, but there's NOTHING like a diesel. With the rebates and the price my local dealership gave me (probably for buying 10+ cars/trucks from them over the years) I did ok. Now I wish I would have picked up the 3500HD, but maybe next year.

The "Dressed up Tahoe" crack is something I first heard from a GM mechanic. I have heard it 100's of times since then by folks, many of them even own one of the over priced things.

I also know that many, many (too damn many) things in my life are made in China - but none of them are in the news right now like GM dumping Hummer. If you think high gas prices and China buying Hummer will not hurt resale - good on you. Keep dreamin' the dream. If Hummer was selling worth a chit GM would not have sold them to the first sucker with cash.

Thanks for telling us all about your pricey toys - it must make you feel real good making those payments. You'll find that most of the folks here are a lil more laid back and a lot less wordy. Don't make em any less important cuz they ain't rolling in a new BMW.

Speaking of that BMW - next time your out this way, let's run it against my old 67 Chevelle just for laughs. There's "I bought it fast" and then "I BUILT it fast". Which one really makes you happier at the end of a run?

You make your own fiscal judgements my man. The reason I can afford to by whatever I want and do what I do is because I don't blow my $$$ on whatever overpriced crap everyone ielse s driving. I spend my money wisely and get the best deal possible.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[D-Man]

I also liked the Suburban when I test drove it. Problem was, the handling wasn’t as crisp as I would have wanted and didn’t want to void the warranty adding stuff. I agree with you on diesels – I own them and love them. They weren’t available in the Hummer. I have heard the same crack a few times but no one is able to back it up with facts. I don’t rely on hearsay.

I can’t control if gas goes up. I suppose that would mean less traffic and more taxes for the DOT to keep our roads and bridges maintained. Doesn’t sound like you really care about gas prices. FYI, there were almost 90 interested parties that wanted to pick up the Hummer brand within the first week of the announcement to sell. This one paid a hefty premium and has substantial cash reserves that will go directly into R & D which will hopefully translate into a diesel/Allison combo for future Hummers. And for the record, I do not like the fact that it can’t stay here in the USA.

I buy what I think is good quality and do not do it for show. Many here at SS know me and can tell you so. I buy cars or other items based on their own merit and really don’t care what other people think – remember this is Colorado, not California. You spend your money more wisely??? How can you really qualify that without knowing someone? Do you usually just say whatever comes to mind or are you really omnipotent?

You made the “I have the bucks” and “WHATEVER I want” comments. That’s laid back? I don’t have to prove anything to anyone – I drive what makes me happy – obviously you do too. I have done complete restorations, too, frame-up, body and drivetrain. I have a civilian job and am in the military, with no time anymore for cool projects like your Chevelle, so yes, I would rather buy fast – been there, done that.

Furthermore, you assume I make payments. I don’t do payments, but that's not your concern. I simply buy what I can afford. In this economy, cash is king and there are crazy, unheard of deals on everything under the sun. I didn’t buy a drag car, just a nice daily driver – you begrudge me for that??? I couldn’t care less about resale because I buy things that should last for a while.

So if H2’s are overpriced crap and BMW’s are overpriced crap, what exactly is your idea of superior quality? You have made several presumptions based on no evidence whatsoever.

So you have no proof of your “Tahoe” theory I assume? Just talk.

BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY!!! Don’t throw it out to see if will stick. I have been respectful to you in this post and have not berated you. Furthermore, I have had the class not to make judgments about you and make incorrect assumptions about your character. I have also not said anything about anyone on this post, as you have intimated – you seem like you have a lot of anger towards the world.

With fiscal autonomy such as yours, I would have guessed that you would be less bitter in your comments toward others. If I said something to offend you, please speak up.

 

[drgreg]

So the first guy says "that water sure is cold", the second guy says "deep too".

 

[DUG]

I'll havta get back to you D - Man; I'm still Googling "wherewithal" and "fiscal autonomy". "Begrudge" has me a lil baffled as well.

I think prolly you just maybe read too much into it. I didn't do research and ain't no one on this board gonna buy a SUV based on any research I did anyway. I said Hummers were overpriced Tahoes. That is an opinion. Period. I don't need to PROVE that to you. I don't need to defend how crisp the steering is or how great the leather smells. I'm just a dude posting what I think.

The "payments" thing - just baitin' you a lil for fun. I knew full well you would reply in a milisecond saying you pay cash money. Just messing with you some man - ease up. Kick back in the Tahoe/Hummer, ease the seat back, smell the rich leather, put some tunes on the satellite radio, pop open the sunroof and just CHILL. It's all good. Really man.

And lastily - drive what you like for a daily driver - really dude. I still wanna run heads up against a new BMW - yours, the guy down my block, my cousin Vinnie's, - anyones. Just for fun. Can't we have fun no more?

Lastily - your font hurts my eyes so I just kinda skimmed over what you wrote - hope you didn't spend a lot of time on it. I am a lil omnipotent and I do say what's on my mind.

The sun is shining and I just took the wife for ice cream in my underpriced, over built deuce. Can't stop from smilin'

 

[DMgunn]

I don't see much change coming from this deal. GM products have been the equivalent in quality to most Chinese products for years now.....

 

[rat4spd]

How was that tornado anyway?

 

[maybefixit]

My concern was that their army might want to build a re-militarized HMMWV from the H1 information. But I'm thinking that they could have just bought a few H1's and surplus HMMWV's from overseas (if need be) and just engineer them up anyhow.

It's not like they don't have extensive experience in copying stuff. So I guess they did just buy the brand and distribution rights for civilian vehicles.

I know a guy who has an H2 - it does have nice elements to it, like good approach and departure angles (with the wheels so close to the bumpers). Personally, I probably would have looked at a nice Jeep Rubicon with a winch (or more likely, keep my current car and get a Deuce w/w ). But he got a good deal (picked it up while gas was still over $3 / gal) and seems happy with it even though it's a V6. Interior room is decent but not a lot better than a Tahoe, but a higher step-up to get in.

 

[emr]

I saw a special about chevy and the hummers, they are going down the same assembly line as the tahoes, the chevy guy even said they are on the same frame and very close to the same truck, "but do not worry they are a very very capable 4by4" he said", yea right, they are street trucks, and as purdy as they are, and I inderstand others like them, and am fine with that, but they aint NO Military vehicle and ones a Tahoe and ones a Blazer, they never had the money to make a new vehicle and they did not.I think the Chinese deserve em, but that is my opinion, I think they are silly, but thats just me...I am absolutly amazed that so many people thought the Chinese was buying the Military version, That goes to show just how good TV ads work.Man they are absolutly different companys. ...Randy

 

[DMgunn]

Let me do a quick history lesson for those that can't understand the difference. This is my perspective on the deal.

AM General makes the real deal. GM bought the rights to the HUMMER name for the civilian market. They then did what they do best, following their Pontiac strategy:

1) Build a cool-looking (if you are in high-school) body that can utilize an existing, otherwise boring chassis (Fiero/Citation, Grand Prix/LeSabre, Grand Am/Alero and countless others) that will convince the consumer that is isn't typical GM low-quality crap, but is actually the equal to the higher-end vehicle the consumer really wants.

2) Market the illusion very heavily until the general public buys the hype.

3) Sell the hell out of it until it becomes mainstream and dated.

4) Repeat.

Of course, the real deal - the H1 which is the basis for all the HUMMER copies to follow, didn't appeal to enough people that could afford it, especially when the far less capable, but 50% cheaper H2 looked almost as cool. And isn't "looks" what it is all about?

So they kill it.

Now we are left with these two imitations (like them all you want, they are what they are) that couldn't hold a candle to the H1 in terms of capability. Why? Because they use off-the-shelf components straight from their generic truck/suv line. Thanks alot GM. I hate you.

I liken it to Coleman selling its "Coleman Powermate" name to whoever made those God-awful cordless drills and other rechargeable tools that were complete garbage. Now their name is tarnished for many consumers, much like the HUMMER name.

Oh, and selling out didn't save Coleman either.

 

[dilvoy]

H2's and H3's are made at AM General's Mishawaka plant. Chevy's are not built there.

 

[DMgunn]

Too bad they aren't built with AM General parts.

 

[m16ty]

I have no opinion in the Hummer/Tahoe debate but I would like to know what the deal is. Some say they are a dressed up Tahoe. Some say they are completely different. Some say they are made in a GM plant on the same line as Chevys. Some say they are made at a AM General plant. I don't know who is right but this thread is full of so much bad information that it's just about useless.

 

[rat4spd]

They started with the Tahoe as the basis for the design. They redesigned the frame and other components. Although it may not be a "Tahoe" per se, the idea started out as a Tahoe Platform and morphed into what it is now. It's much quicker (and much cheaper) to engineer a new product based on an existing platform than to design one from scratch.

 

[DUG]

H2's and H3's are made at AM General's Mishawaka plant. Chevy's are not built there.

WRONG! The H3 is built ALONGSIDE the Colorado/Canyon in Shreveport. Hummer's own website will tell you this. An H3 is just a fancy Colorado, which is really just a dressed up S10.

 

[Cucvnut]

The Colorado replaced the S10 so its not really a dressed up S10 diff truck all together.

 

[DUG]

The Colorado replaced the S10 so its not really a dressed up S10 diff truck all together.

Pretty much the same to me - weak little truck made by GM. It wasn't a HUGE change - on the outside maybe. You aren't doing much more with a Colorado that you couldn't do with a S10.

 

[Cucvnut]

But its not the same truck...Would you get offended if some one kept calling your M35 a M62 ? when its not ?