Connected my MEP-803A the proper way as my home standby generator... Install pics...

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Glockfan

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I've bought a couple of deuces that sat in a field for 12 years. I drained, filtered the fuel with a t-shirt and reused it in the truck. They ran without any problems. The problem is the build up of algae in the containers diesel is stored in. I believe diesel will last a lifetime if store correctly, just my opinion.
Funny you mention that. We received an old Cat D8 that had about 100 gallons of 18-year old diesel in it. I removed about 50 gallons and noticed that the diesel was about the color of iced tea. I burned about 25 gallons of it in the 802a that I had during the ice storm and the generator didn't miss a beat.
 

tim292stro

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Filtration and treatment is the key with old diesel fuel. The quality of the container is a big contributor of the storage lifetime. Plastic may not be legal if they are not rated for fuel storage, steel drums are cheap and DOT rated for carrying in the back of a truck (even a pickup). Placards are needed if you go over 1,100lbs of "hazardous materials" (so is a license endorsement...) - so two drums can be carried and be easily within that limit (about 400lbs each drum, including the weight of the drum, rounded up). Just need to pay attention to markings.

Once a month you can run the fuel through a fine water separating filter and add a dose of PRI-D and PRI-Ocide (using a static mixer after dosing in the return line) using a self priming 12V or 24V pump. You can get through processing 110Gallons in less than a hour including setup/tear-down, and you'd probably only need to do this 4 times a year.

If you plan on getting "Free" fuel from an untrusted source, expect to "polish" your fuel with fine filtration and chemical treatment - but you might also consider dropping the coin for an over-sized coarse filter to run it through first. Save your other filters for the final work of keeping what little crud gets into your fuel system after clean fuel is put in the tank. You can build a fuel polishing/transfer system for much cheaper that you can buy at retail (this example uses two of the coarse filters I linked just above at 10x the cost for the whole system).
 

tim292stro

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Here's something in "your neck of the woods" if your local shop doesn't carry it. [thumbzup]

I haven't had experience with that particular product from Power Service, but in my reading the Power Service additives (except for winter treatment and biocide) are about as close to snake oil as you get can without damaging your engine. As an example, here is an additive comparison that was done a while back for The Diesel Place forums by a lab (hosted on Jatonka's Deuce website). PRI-D didn't make the pool of tests for one reason or another, but they have published their HFRR test results here. Opti-Lube XPD seems to be the best in the test (short of using biodiesel), however you will see in the PRI-D test result on the worst day PRI-D beats Power Service by a few points and on a good day by several hundred (heavily depends on original refinery output fuel quality - your neck of the woods seems to be the best place in the country to get diesel...).

The document talks about the finer points of maintaining Diesel without actually telling you why.

Yes, when you are "polishing" your fuel, you want to draw from the lowest possible point in the tank (and really scrape around any of the "gunk" [tar deposits] that are down there) to get out the water and any built up dead stuff (note the water at the bottom of a settled beaker, and algae blooms at the water/diesel boundary).
DieselAlgae.gif

This will get the water, dirt, sediment, and tar globs out of the bottom of the tank. However you may recall from earlier posts in this thread that diesel is hygroscopic - meaning it will take in moisture creating an emulsion. The water separating filters will only take out liquid water, not entrained water (nearly evenly dispersed at the molecular level - think of it like Goretex "water not water vapor"). What ClearDiesel appears to claim to do is demulsify water from the fuel, loosens tar deposits, causes algae blooms to flocculate (clump). You still need a biocide to kill the algae this is growing at the fuel/water boundary, and you still need to draw off enough material from the bottom to remove ALL of the liquid water (with a coalescing filter), and enough of the diesel above the water to get any algae blooms that are still alive - this'll eat up the capacity of a fuel filter, which is why I recommend an over-sized one for "polishing" (extends the replacement interval). Then you need to treat the fuel with an algae inhibitor (doesn't last forever), and a fuel treatment that will inhibit rust (protecting the tank, also doesn't last forever), neutralizes metal poisoning of the fuel (doesn't last forever).

My rule of thumb is to polish the volume twice per cycle (whatever you decide your cycle is, for a 55Gallon drum, 110gallons would go through your pump and filters per cycle) so that you get a decent agitation of the fuel. Using an injection/dosing pump followed by a static mixer in the return pipe after the filter is probably overkill for most, but is the "right way" to mix the fuel additives (unless you have an empty tank it will never fully/correctly mix). Doing the volume twice lets you add your biocide and stabilizer at half the dose rate per pass, and gives the filter a longer time to capture the pollutants.

Keeping your fuel at a constant temperature above freezing (and the tank out of the sun) will keep the fuel from expanding and contracting which pulls in air from the outside like a diaphragm pump (from which the fuel can absorb moisture from the "new air"), and keeping the tank full will limit the amount of air that can enter and exit the tank during whatever temperature cycles the tank may endure.

Any additive that will:
  • inhibit rust
  • reduce metal poisoning of the fuel
  • demulsify water
  • cause algae to clump
  • either retain or improve the lubricity of the fuel (NOT REDUCE)

AND an algae treatment that kills and keeps killed (either through sufficient initial dose, or smaller subsequent doses), is what I look for.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

Glockfan

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Dang Tim, plenty of knowledge in your last post. I'll order Pri D from Amazon and retreat this summer. I have about 100 gallons on hand. 10 in the tank and 90 in the aux tank. I would like to find a high volume pump that I could use to polish my stored diesel with. Also, the coalescing filter is something I need to track down. Thanks for the wisdom!
 

rustystud

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I've been using "Pri D" for years ( "Pri G" for gasoline ). It is the best product on the market today. The only problem with "Pri ocide" is you have to buy it in 55 gallon drums ! They stopped selling it in quarts about 2 years ago. So I'm using "Bio-cide" brand now for algae growth.
 

tim292stro

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Yes, I have yet to get through my 5 gallon can, and now I'm SOL on new purchases... Well, I will buy a 55 gallon drum, but it'll be the last purchase I expect to make of PRI-Ocide... probably ever :)

Initial dose rate is 1:3800 (a hypothetical 55 gallon drum would get about 1/4oz), and the maintenance dose is 1/2 that - if I did my dose monthly on that imaginary drum, it would take about 36 years to consume the 55 gallon drum of PRI-Ocide...

This is why I say "a biocide" - we could probably work a group buy and split the drum if that was something you guys were interested in...
 

Ratch

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Just looking out the window at my 802 sitting in the snow...thinking about coolant.
How the heck does the mil add coolant to these things? Does it really require a funnel? Somehow, I can't see an isolated post being screwed because they don't have a funnel on the machine.
 

rustystud

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Just looking out the window at my 802 sitting in the snow...thinking about coolant.
How the heck does the mil add coolant to these things? Does it really require a funnel? Somehow, I can't see an isolated post being screwed because they don't have a funnel on the machine.
You would be surprised at what the military is capable of doing ! Or not doing !
 

1800 Diesel

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Glockfan,

Great job on the MEP installation & many thanks for sharing. I wanted to ask about this generator's voltage switch which the TM seems to imply that single phase 120/240v power is available without having to do wiring mods like the MEP-004A-006A series. Were you able to use the generator in its original configuration or did you have to do some wiring changes? Or did you just use 2 of the 3 legs for the house connection?

The reason I'm asking this is that I thought I remember seeing questions on SS about how to convert the TQ series over to single phase, but when I looked in the TM, it seems to be switchable to the 120/240v setting, with no wiring changes required.

Thanks again for showing us your setup--it's 1st class!

Kevin
 

Glockfan

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Brigham City, Utah
Glockfan,

Great job on the MEP installation & many thanks for sharing. I wanted to ask about this generator's voltage switch which the TM seems to imply that single phase 120/240v power is available without having to do wiring mods like the MEP-004A-006A series. Were you able to use the generator in its original configuration or did you have to do some wiring changes? Or did you just use 2 of the 3 legs for the house connection?

The reason I'm asking this is that I thought I remember seeing questions on SS about how to convert the TQ series over to single phase, but when I looked in the TM, it seems to be switchable to the 120/240v setting, with no wiring changes required.

Thanks again for showing us your setup--it's 1st class!

Kevin
Kevin, there is no special rewire required to use the MEP-802/803 in three phase or single phase. There is a selector switch located inside the control panel which allows you to select 208v 3 phase, 120/240v single phase or just 120v single phase. You only then need to select the proper position for the current switch on the outside of the control panel to match your selection you made with the internal switch and use L1 and neutral for straight 120v, L1 and L3 and neutral for 120/240v, and L1, L2, L3 and neutral for three phase.

Very simple!
 

1800 Diesel

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Kevin, there is no special rewire required to use the MEP-802/803 in three phase or single phase. There is a selector switch located inside the control panel which allows you to select 208v 3 phase, 120/240v single phase or just 120v single phase. You only then need to select the proper position for the current switch on the outside of the control panel to match your selection you made with the internal switch and use L1 and neutral for straight 120v, L1 and L3 and neutral for 120/240v, and L1, L2, L3 and neutral for three phase.

Very simple!
Thanks Glockfan...I looked for an internal switch on a friend's 804A model & could not locate it. The external switch was obvious but never found an internal switch. I assume the 804A config would be similar or the same as the 802 & 803A models? If so would you be able to tell me which door or panel needs to be opened/removed to access the switch? I've never worked on any of these series generators--only the older MEP 002A through MEP-005A models.

Thanks again,

Kevin
 

Glockfan

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IIRC the 804A is significantly different. I believe this is a 15KW unit powered by an Isuzu diesel. I may be wrong. Only the 802's and 803's are powered by the Onan branded Lister Petter engine and share many of the same parts and design. I'll try to find out some info about the 804 if you need it.
 

CT-Mike

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1800, if you're talking about operating a -004 or -804 in 120/240 mode, you need to make some physical changes on the interconnect board to re-wire the 12 lead generator head to low-zigzag mode. Look at sewerzuk's excellent thread and videos on how to perform this semi-permanent modification.
 

Glockfan

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Brigham City, Utah
Just a progress update to let you guys know how my MEP-803A is running in its current configuration...

I try to make it a point to start my generator up weekly and let it run just long enough to open the thermostat and come up to operating tempreture. This usually means that most weeks, it runs for about 20-30 minutes. I try to run the entire house on generator power about one every four to six weeks and usually let it run for at least an hour with normal household loads. It runs the HVAC both summer and winter without issues. I have not entirely ran only the strip heat in the winter like I have been wanting to do. Maybe next winter. I have had the load bank on the generator and tested it in 208V three phase configuration measuring 15,200 watts. It ran 15-20 minutes producing 15k before tripping the overload.

I still have not gotten around to building the final piece of fence to obscure the sight of this MEP and aux fuel tank from view. I think that the fence would help to redirect the sound (which is by no means terrible) up. I know finishing the fence would add to the visual appeal of the entire setup and I would honestly like to get it done.

My solar trickle charger that I installed seems to have crapped out, the coolant tempreture gauge sticks and should be replaced other than that, no mechanical issues have been noted. My exhaust upgrade is working quite well and the only negative point is that I added a rattle from the rain cap that annoys me. I guess the trade off is worth it because the rain cap (flapper) closes every time the unit is shut off unlike the cheesy factory flapper that the wind can blow open.

I will post a pic when (or if) I get my fence in place, I promise.
 

Another Ahab

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My solar trickle charger that I installed seems to have crapped out, the coolant tempreture gauge sticks and should be replaced other than that, no mechanical issues have been noted. My exhaust upgrade is working quite well and the only negative point is that I added a rattle from the rain cap that annoys me. I guess the trade off is worth it because the rain cap (flapper) closes every time the unit is shut off unlike the cheesy factory flapper that the wind can blow open.
I'm wondering if running a bead of form-a-gasket material around the top rim of the pipe would solve your "rain-cap rattle"?
 
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