Connecting autostart controllers 802A / 803A and 831A

[Dwnorton1]

what is output c used for 39,40? It and generator loading relay output d 41,42 are the only true dry contacts the way the schematic looks. The outputs 8,9, 10, 11 look like outputs that would control a true interposing relay which you would have to add.

 

[craigc]

Here is the programming I set up for output C on the controller that is normally closed so that should work.

 

[Dwnorton1]

Wow you are ahead of me. Lol

 

[craigc]

After you said to use K12 I went and looked at the controller to see if there was a unused dry contact and there was so I just programmed it up quick laptop is on and connected so it doesn't take long.
Thanks for your help

 

[Dwnorton1]

I'm just glad you introduced us to these controllers. I had old panelview 550 and ab plc that I was going to set up like redneck MEP-80XB. Been doing some research, I think I can sell the the 550 for enough to buy these controllers for both of my gen sets. Woo woo.

 

[craigc]

I have 2 of the 7310's if you want the capability of monitoring mains and monitoring the transfer switch I think you need the 7320. Another member bought one off fleabay for about $300. I've used these controllers on crappy 6500 Watt Chinese LP generators for a 4 month job before and they worked well. They are so configurable and programmable. I'm glad we can all learn and help each other. I have a ton of fun trying to figure out this kind of thing. I would probably sell one if someone is interested. Be careful there have been chinese copies out there as well.

 

[Dwnorton1]

Oh the thought has occurred to me to do full transfer switch with interposing contactor to segregate the shore power from my gen power so I could pick up load of my full "grid" (house, barns, sheds, etc) at my house. I wish I had thought of it when I was redoing my electrical at my house last year. I would have set up a distribution panel with only the loads I would run during an outage situation without having to use larger gen set. Fun to plan but application now would be difficult at best

 

[zanther]

was reading through the -24 manual this morning and saw this on 1-18.

The cranking motor then cranks the engine.

As the engine accelerates to approximately 900 rpm, the magnetic pickup, which senses engine speed, causes the crank

disconnect switch to break the circuit to the coil of the crank disconnect relay and close the contacts of the field flash relay.

When the MASTER SWITCH is moved to one of the RUN positions, both starting control circuits are deenergized while

the instrument and other control circuits remain energized. The fuel solenoid holding coil remains energized.

 

[DieselAddict]

was reading through the -24 manual this morning and saw this on 1-18.

The cranking motor then cranks the engine.

As the engine accelerates to approximately 900 rpm, the magnetic pickup, which senses engine speed, causes the crank

disconnect switch to break the circuit to the coil of the crank disconnect relay and close the contacts of the field flash relay.

When the MASTER SWITCH is moved to one of the RUN positions, both starting control circuits are deenergized while

the instrument and other control circuits remain energized. The fuel solenoid holding coil remains energized.

That is correct for the 802/803 machines. The 831 is different. He is working on the 831 first.

 

[craigc]

I'll be starting the 802/803 project early next week, I'm waiting on the MPU and current transformers for the 831 but I'm real close to having all the other primary functions working. I'm hoping to put up a youtube video today or tomorrow.

Thanks zanther We'll need that info next week. There is 3 of us I know of that are going to be using the DSE7310 controller on our 802/803

 

[Guyfang]

You cats are about 22 miles over my head.

BUT, I am better looking! Or so I have been told.

I am glad you guys are brainstorming this out. THIS is just THE REASON we have this great forum. People coming together and solving problems. It's not so much helping people fix things. And that is important also, but its showing the way for others. That's what I am talking about! Great work.

 

[craigc]

We are not way over your head, I think you know these things inside out upside down and every other way. I know you help people with your talent and skill. Thank you for that. I have never seen or touched a military generator till a couple of months ago so I'm just stubborn and keep at it till I get it figured out. You are most likely right about the "better looking" though. Like everyone on this site I like to learn and help others with what I know or have learned.

You cats are about 22 miles over my head.

BUT, I am better looking! Or so I have been told.

I am glad you guys are brainstorming this out. THIS is just THE REASON we have this great forum. People coming together and solving problems. It's not so much helping people fix things. And that is important also, but its showing the way for others. That's what I am talking about! Great work.

 

[Dwnorton1]

I fully agree with Craig on this one.
You,Guy, have forgotten more than most will ever know about gen sets and missile systems as well, I suspect. Too bad we can't talk about those.

I also agree with you Guy, this is a great place to collaborate. With great people. I have to concede that you are better looking as well. Oh well. Everyone can't be as smart and sexy as you.

 

[craigc]

Alright, I have the basic functions of the controller working on my 831A. Go easy on me, I know its a mess but wanted to make sure I could make it work first. Now I'll add the other signals such as, over temp alarm, low oil pressure, current transformers and AC interrupter control. I'll be adding the DSE890 3G cellular gateway as soon as it gets here. This way I can monitor and control the controller/genset from anywhere there is internet even if the power is out at home. This can be done by web browser or a app on your phone.

Once I'm done the wiring and programming I'll build a nice wiring harness with a plug/jack to a enclosure for the controller.

here's a video I did today.
https://youtu.be/34nIbKPsleU

 

[Dwnorton1]

Very nice, so you did have to do interposing relay for shutting down unit? I'm impressed with those controllers and your ability to adapt to 831. 802/803 will be simple comparatively. Your trailer mounted set is so clean. I'm jealous. Lol. Thanks for the video.

 

[craigc]

Thanks, I tried to do it a couple of ways which turned out to be more complicated than it needed to be. I ended up using a typical 24VDC automotive relay and a SPDT switch for auto-start / default operation. I like to make things so if there is a controller failure you simply unplug the controller and flick one switch to go back to default operation. The way I set this up is basicly using most of the genset controls, I just use the outputs of the controller and a relay to mimic S1.

Things I still need to setup
The AC interrupter (controller has a output for this)
High temp, Low oil alarms with shutdown, 831A has switches for these, 802A/803A will have actual oil pressure and coolant temp on the controller. (controller has a input for this)
The current transformers for L1-L2 and N so the controller can accurately display watts per leg/N and alarm / shutdown on programmed limits.
Correct the fuel level indication, the resistance curve is completely programmable and will figure out how to configure the No fuel switch into the whole system.
connect the wire to the charge alternator and program actions if it fails to charge the battery or the batteries are failing.
Install the MPU, this isn't necessary as it turns out but it's only $40 and 3 wires. I think it would be good to have that info for logging and troubleshooting remotely.
Once I have the Cellular gateway I'll create a read only account so people can login to the webpage and monitor what the genset is doing to see how useful that is for many reasons.

Then to find and make a professional type wiring harness with plugs a person can connect/disconnect easily.

 

[craigc]

Well it appears the MPU works well, if anyone is interested the flywheel has 97 teeth so you can program the controller.
here's the one I used, it's 3/8 by 2.25"

http://www.davidsonsalesshop.com/te...tBasic.aspx?ProductGuid=DSC17200&GroupGuid=80

 

[craigc]

And here is the current transformers installed on L1 L2, I should have bought 3 but they are $50 each. I used 30:5 instrument CT's. They seem accurate but I'll make sure the controller programming is correct then I'll use my Fluke meter and current clamp to check. I have programmed over current alarms as well.

This was just a quick test off the convenience outlet.

 

[craigc]

I'm somewhat stumped on the best way to open/close the AC interrupter. It looks like to close the interrupter the switch S5 (momentary open/close) goes to - but is it self holding so just a pulse is needed and then how would the controller open the interrupter. The controller can do pulse, dry contact , pull to ground or supply 24v.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

[DieselAddict]

1 second pulse.

edit - with a DPDT relay in parallel with the switch contacts. Use the second set of relay contacts to prevent open and close signals from being sent at the same time due to a control error.