ether bottle - quick start

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doghead

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cheaper 21 oz. bottles
this, hard to google "cheaper 21 oz. bottles", to see what your talking about.
 

goldwing2000

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this, hard to google "cheaper 21 oz. bottles", to see what your talking about.
See post #15, above. No googling necessary.

I noticed that all of the pictures of all the Kat's systems are exactly the same, regardless of stated bottle size (18 oz or 21 oz) or actuating system (24v automatic, 24v manual or cable), so I have my doubts as to whether or not that picture is actually of a 21 oz bottle, especially considering that the 21 oz Kat's bottle appears to be substantially different in shape (see attached). Also, what I'm trying to find out is whether or not the 21 oz Kat's bottle will fit the old Milspec system, not if it's interchangeable within the current model Kat's systems.
 

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goldwing2000

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I read somewhere that there are two different nozzle sizes, though. Apparently there is a 7/8" neck and a 1" neck. The Kat's bottles have a 1" neck. This is all just conjecture at this point. Once I get home I'll pull my bottle off and see what I can see but for now I'm just trying to see if anybody has any direct experience.
One thing for sure is that I'm going to bypass that dang 20° cutout switch. Running on WMO, I need ether anywhere below 50°!
 

goldwing2000

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You need the tall skinny bottle (18 oz.) The fat squat one (21 oz) does not work. The 24 volt systems thermo is set to 50 deg, not 20.


This is the video of mine on my old truck:
Saw that video posted a few times already!

How sure are you of that number? Is that the original system or the aftermarket? Everything else I've read says that the military ether system is switched at 20°, not 50°. I suppose it would be easy enough to check it with a thermocouple, DVOM and a freezer.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/180082-post62.html
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/76839-post11.html
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/81585-post44.html

In fact, that entire thread has a lot of good info regarding thread sizes, bottle sizes, etc.
 

greenjeepster

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My system was on the truck when I got it from the KY National Guard I know for a fact that it worked above 20 because I used it above 20 deg.

If you click the haldex link I posted it will download the specs and it states 50 deg. Nothing I can find on kats site states anything but 50 deg, so I don't know where people are getting the 20 deg number from... The system I had only worked with the 18 oz bottle. the 21 oz bottle was too large for the bottle bracket.

I will trade a good used flame heater for a ether injection if anybody wants to swap.
 
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goldwing2000

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My system was on the truck when I got it from the KY National Guard I know for a fact that it worked above 20 because I used it above 20 deg.

If you click the haldex link I posted it will download the specs and it states 50 deg. Nothing I can find on kats site states anything but 50 deg, so I don't know where people are getting the 20 deg number from... The system I had only worked with the 18 oz bottle. the 21 oz bottle was too large for the bottle bracket.

I will trade a good used flame heater for a ether injection if anybody wants to swap.
I did click the link and that's definitely what it says for current systems but it could be that maybe the specs of the system changed over the years? Are all of the military systems made by Kat's? I read that some of them were made by QuikStart. *shrug* I'm just spitballing, here. I'm definitely going to check out my sensor when I get home tonight.
I do have a couple trucks with flame heaters, though. I haven't verified operation of them yet but I'd be happy to swap you. I hear the flame heaters don't work very well on WMO and that's mostly what I run.
 

greenjeepster

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I did click the link and that's definitely what it says for current systems but it could be that maybe the specs of the system changed over the years? Are all of the military systems made by Kat's? I read that some of them were made by QuikStart. *shrug* I'm just spitballing, here. I'm definitely going to check out my sensor when I get home tonight.
I do have a couple trucks with flame heaters, though. I haven't verified operation of them yet but I'd be happy to swap you. I hear the flame heaters don't work very well on WMO and that's mostly what I run.
I have never seen one on a deuce that wasn't made by Kats. You would be able to hear it actuate even if the bottle is empty. It makes a click sound when you flip the switch, if it is too warm it doesn't make any sound when the switch is flipped.

I don't want a flame heater, I want the ether injection :razz: Thanks though. Ether fires in about 10 seconds even when below zero... much better for the starter.

My guess on the 20 deg quote is that somebody mistakenly posted 20 deg somewhere and because of our wonderful search function everybody has been repeating it. I have yet to see anything from the manufacturer that says anything except 50 deg.
 
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goldwing2000

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I have never seen one on a deuce that wasn't made by Kats. You would be able to hear it actuate even if the bottle is empty. It makes a click sound when you flip the switch, if it is too warm it doesn't make any sound when the switch is flipped.

I don't want a flame heater, I want the ether injection :razz: Thanks though. Ether fires in about 10 seconds even when below zero... much better for the starter.

My guess on the 20 deg quote is that somebody mistakenly posted 20 deg somewhere and because of our wonderful search function everybody has been repeating it. I have yet to see anything from the manufacturer that says anything except 50 deg.
My misunderstanding on the flame heater.

I'll post up what I find on my sensors/brands/etc. I have a truck with an empty cooling system so it'll be easy enough to take things off and check them.

In your experience, is there any reason the bottle bracket couldn't be modified to accept the 21oz bottle?

PS: Here's a post with a pic of the Quickstart system, including the part number: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/81077-post34.html
 
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greenjeepster

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In your experience, is there any reason the bottle bracket couldn't be modified to accept the 21oz bottle?
No; you would just have to shim out the valve from the mounting bracket somehow, maybe washers would do it. Then put a larger strap on.

Thanks for the link... The lack of an nsn number probably indicates that it was an aftermarket system, not under military contract.
 

goldwing2000

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No; you would just have to shim out the valve from the mounting bracket somehow, maybe washers would do it. Then put a larger strap on.

Thanks for the link... The lack of an nsn number probably indicates that it was an aftermarket system, not under military contract.
Ok, just spent some time underhood.

Truck 1: Ether start system
Orange bottle, no brand, empty
Quickstart brand solenoid assembly
Bottle gasket absent
Verified 24v to solenoid wires when actuating switch in cab
Verified solenoid operation by jumping to 24v power (off truck)
Temperature switch is closed (ambient temp 21°F, result inconclusive)

Truck 2: Ether start system
Orange bottle, Quickstart brand, 18 oz., almost full
Quickstart brand solenoid assembly
Bottle gasket pertrified and damaged
Verified solenoid operation by jumping to 24v power (off truck)
Temperature switch is closed (ambient temp 21°F, result inconclusive)

Truck 3 & 4: Flame heater systems

I'll check out the switch tomorrow at work when I have access to better temp control devices.

Any idea what the bottle gasket is made of? Or if it even needs one?

edit: and both trucks have the bracket for another ether bottle. Truck 1 behind the left headlight, Truck 2 on the left inner fender (no personnel heater)
 
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saddamsnightmare

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December 28th, 2011.

I believe I'll stay with the flame heater, cheaper then ether and more reliable, plus I don't have to buy ether.Now where my truck is in Texas, it almost never gets cold enough to use either system much, but the word is, diesels really don't like ether beyond a measured shot system. I have a German Deutz air cooled diesel generator set (industrial) and it never needed the measured shot system even to -25F below to start, but then the Germans have always realized "Winter Happens!" (Especially on the road to Moscow) American Diesel engineers have never been good about designing diesels that don't need crutches to start below +20*F. Maybe we should study the Deutz's more closely. If I didn't need any heat in the cab, the air cooled diesel is the way to go, lighter, faster, more efficient, quiker starting and handles high heat and cold better too....
Just my2centsworth,

good luck on your truck....
 

1 Patriot-of-many

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Quickstart is still in business, you can buy a valve directly from them for about $35 or so. Mine wasn't working. Make sure you get a 4CC valve. There are quickstart valves on ebay, I almost bought a 12cc before regaining my senses and contacting the quickstart company for the proper substitute. The stock valve is a QS4-2AM, they can hook you up with a QS4-2TC? I think it was that doesn't have the special connector(you can cut the wires off an old one and splice it in using the special connector). the -2TC is a 4cc shot, a -6TC would be a 12cc shot ect. According to the rep I talked to the application(3116 CAT) calls for a 4cc shot.

original size ether canisters are a little less than $30 at Oreilly's, if you don't have that chain of auto parts stores near you I'm sure they can hook you up with the original part number like they did for me. Only difference in the one Oreilly's had was the color. It was whitish rather than orange, otherwise the exact same.

As for the 20degree sensor? I have no idea where that came from, I've used the quickstart system higher than 20 degrees on my M35A3, closer to 30degrees or higher.
 
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goldwing2000

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Quickstart is still in business, you can buy a valve directly from them for about $35 or so. Mine wasn't working. Make sure you get a 2CC valve or is it the 4 in the model?. There are quickstart valves on ebay, I almost bought a 12cc before regaining my senses and contacting the quickstart company for the proper substitute. The stock valve is a QS4-2AM, they can hook you up with a QS4-2TC? I think it was that doesn't have the special connector(you can cut the wires off an old one and splice it in using the special connector).

original size ether canisters are a little less than $30 at Oreilly's, if you don't have that chain of auto parts stores near you I'm sure they can hook you up with the original part number like they did for me. Only difference in the one Oreilly's had was the color. It was whitish rather than orange, otherwise the exact same.

As for the 20degree sensor? I have no idea where that came from, I've used the quickstart system higher than 20 degrees on my M35A3, closer to 30degrees or higher.
Good to know, thanks! O'Reilly shows the cans on their web site but it shows as "currently unavailable" so I'll have to stop in and see if they can still get them around here.
I'm curious why you went with a 2cc valve, though. Both of mine say 6cc.
 
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