ether bottle - quick start

523
4
18
Location
Colchester, Vermont
December 28th, 2011.

I believe I'll stay with the flame heater, cheaper then ether and more reliable, plus I don't have to buy ether.Now where my truck is in Texas, it almost never gets cold enough to use either system much, but the word is, diesels really don't like ether beyond a measured shot system. I have a German Deutz air cooled diesel generator set (industrial) and it never needed the measured shot system even to -25F below to start, but then the Germans have always realized "Winter Happens!" (Especially on the road to Moscow) American Diesel engineers have never been good about designing diesels that don't need crutches to start below +20*F. Maybe we should study the Deutz's more closely. If I didn't need any heat in the cab, the air cooled diesel is the way to go, lighter, faster, more efficient, quiker starting and handles high heat and cold better too....
Just my2centsworth,

good luck on your truck....

American Diesel engineers? The engine is built under license from M.A.N.
(Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nurnberg) The place where Rudolf Diesel built his first working diesel engine.
 

goldwing2000

Banned
506
13
18
Location
Ingham County, Michigan
Bummer. Just called O'Reilly and they can't get the $23 cans any more. They're happy to sell me a $45 can, though! :roll:

If I can't find any 18oz cans at local truck stops, I'll be seriously looking into switching over to the 21oz cans.
 

goldwing2000

Banned
506
13
18
Location
Ingham County, Michigan
Found a local shop that has 21oz cans in stock for $24.24. Will be picking one up to see if I can make it work. Hmm... on second thought, maybe I'll see if I make it work with a shorty propane cylinder first. No sense wasting money if it's not necessary.
 

1 Patriot-of-many

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Zimmerman MN
I just matched what was on my truck. I had a QS4-2AM that wasn't working so I replaced it with the QS4-2TC. I forget whether the 4 is the cc's or the 2 in the model number. What's the markings on your valves? If they're not AM on the end, I would presume they were replaced at some point.
 

goldwing2000

Banned
506
13
18
Location
Ingham County, Michigan
I just matched what was on my truck. I had a QS4-2AM that wasn't working so I replaced it with the QS4-2TC. I forget whether the 4 is the cc's or the 2 in the model number. What's the markings on your valves? If they're not AM on the end, I would presume they were replaced at some point.
Neither of my valves have a part number. Stamped into the body of the valve, they both have:

QUICK START PRODUCTS - U.S. PAT. NO. 3966097
ROCHELLE, IL. 61068 - - - 6 CC MEASURED SHOT

One of them has a sticker on the solenoid that has the Quick Start logo and the following numbers:
19207-12380045
M?? 78280 (There's a wrinkle in the sticker, so the "??" are characters I can't read. Maybe "MFR"?)
 
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1 Patriot-of-many

Active member
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Zimmerman MN
Neither of my valves have a part number. Stamped into the body of the valve, they both have:

QUICK START PRODUCTS - U.S. PAT. NO. 3966097
ROCHELLE, IL. 61068 - - - 6 CC MEASURED SHOT

One of them has a sticker on the solenoid that has the Quick Start logo and the following numbers:
19207-12380045
M?? 78280 (There's a wrinkle in the sticker, so the "??" are characters I can't read. Maybe "MFR"?)
Okay here's the deal, I went back and looked at the valve I almost purchased on my ebay account. It was a QS4-6TC (12cc shot). I talked to a guy at quickstart when I contemplated purchasing and he looked up the application for a 3116 Cat, told me it would work but highly recommended the 4cc shot( the -2AM That was installed originally in mine and what the application called for, So the number after the dash on these models is half the cc shot each trigger. 6 cc isn't too far from what he said the application called for but 12cc was 3 times!!!! That's why I stuck with the -2TC model. I keep forgetting....You might have an A2- different engine altogether! DOOH. That might explain why yours is a 6cc shot?

I'm going to go back and correct my post it wasn't a 2cc, it is 4cc that is called for according to that rep when I replaced mine.(for the CAT3116)
 
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greenjeepster

New member
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Southbury, CT
The instruction plate on the flame heater says not to use it above 20 deg F. That is probably where the 20 deg number morphed over from on the either injection system.
 

goldwing2000

Banned
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Location
Ingham County, Michigan
Okay here's the deal, I went back and looked at the valve I almost purchased on my ebay account. It was a QS4-6TC (12cc shot). I talked to a guy at quickstart when I contemplated purchasing and he looked up the application for a 3116 Cat, told me it would work but highly recommended the 4cc shot( the -2AM That was installed originally in mine and what the application called for, So the number after the dash on these models is half the cc shot each trigger. 6 cc isn't too far from what he said the application called for but 12cc was 3 times!!!! That's why I stuck with the -2TC model. I keep forgetting....You might have an A2- different engine altogether! DOOH. That might explain why yours is a 6cc shot?

I'm going to go back and correct my post it wasn't a 2cc, it is 4cc that is called for according to that rep when I replaced mine.(for the CAT3116)
Yep, mines an A2. I didn't even think about you possibly having a different application until you wrote "CAT 3116". It all makes sense now. :)

Deuce007: as previously discussed, using a spray can will do in an emergency but is more difficult and more dangerous.
 

saddamsnightmare

Well-known member
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Location
Abilene, Texas
December 30th, 2011.

Dear Mr. Corleone:

I know the deuce is a MAN design, BUT when the army removed the flame heaters for ether, they pretty much crippled the truck! No ether-No start (or a darn slow one). WHAT I was referring to is that there are very few American designed diesels that can start at -30*F without a block or pan heater, without glow plugs, and without ether. The Deutz FL912 on the generator set (Air cooled diesel) could do it every time in less then 30 seconds (crank & fire-stall in about 30 seconds of run;crank and fire, run rough thirty seconds then pick up the load and go all day and all night long). The Germans realize diesels have to start quickly and without the excessive crutches the american diesels need to start below 20*F.

A war in Russia or the Artic will thin out a lot of American equipment if it can't start when needed! :confused:Happy New Year's!:beer:
 

greenjeepster

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December 30th, 2011.

Dear Mr. Corleone:

I know the deuce is a MAN design, BUT when the army removed the flame heaters for ether, they pretty much crippled the truck! No ether-No start (or a darn slow one). WHAT I was referring to is that there are very few American designed diesels that can start at -30*F without a block or pan heater, without glow plugs, and without ether.
No diesel will start at that temp without fuel additive because the fuel would be gelled.
 

saddamsnightmare

Well-known member
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Location
Abilene, Texas
December 31st, 2011.

I regret to say to the resident authority above, the set in question started at -20 and -30 below without assist. the fuel tank or day tank was on the gen set, and it was intentionally designed from day one to operate from Hudson's Bay to southern Mexico as a railcar genset. I also regret to say the thermometers all read accurately and she would start and run on straight diesel. At that time straight diesel was also the equivalent of No. 2 furnace oil, but it was running on plain diesel no additives. The Genset is still running in W.Va. 24 years later, and it was the prototype to ones used under RR Business cars and mechanical reefer cars all over North America, Canada and Mexico.
Our resident authority often fails to realize that railroad gensets are designed to stand conditions that only a few military units can match, as they must often run for days on end at full load without any attendence as they power various railroad cars. If the batteries were good, 2- 12VDC Gould's, she would start and the ether was never used, it was the last ditch backup as was the oil pan heater,, with was never applied. The engine itself was modified at the main Deutz plant in Germany to be able to run at about 30* above horizontal as it had to lay on its side to replace an 8 cell battery box under a rail car and not haing down enough to catch a 9" tall rail in a derailment. You forget an air cooled diesel has no cooling water to heat up, so it will fire at lower temperatures then a water cooled unit.... They are used all around the world and are very much a better unit then the American diesels.... And, oh, the reason she was aircooled was to save weight, operable under conditions that no water cooled unit could match, and to protect the cooling system when the car was pulled at up to 105 MPH in either direction. Water cooled diesels in that application either overheat when pulled backwards against the noramal airflow through the radiator, or they eat rocks lifted off the ballast by suction form the passing wheelsets.....
My genset can prove that starting capability any time its -20 to -30, and it operated under a railcar with no protection from the wind and rain other then the carbody above it.
I would replace the MAN with a Deutz if I needed a truck to operate year round under the worst conditions and parts availability anywhere in the world. It might be a jug type engine, but its much easier to rebuild in place also, it might not be a multi but it would eat a Cat for lunch for reliability and cheapness of repairs.2cents

Happy New Year's and don't drink too much, alcohol is no better for humans then it is for engines!fat lady sings
 

greenjeepster

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Ship it to me and I will do an unbiased field test on it for the benefit of the forum:razz:

You can search gel point of diesel, you will find that the gel point for #2 (not winter blend) is around 17 deg F. At -30 is would be like pudding no matter how good the engine is.

Unless that Deutz is designed to burn solids, it will need assistance to run. whether that assistance is a little starting fluid, some fuel additive, plug in heater, doesn't matter much.
 
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