HMMWV odd smoking problem.

[vitamink]

I touched on this earlier in another thread but the situation seems to be somewhat worse. I can't seem to nail the issue down as the symptoms change from time to time. The one constant is a rough idle. Initially the rough idle would go away after you drove the thing out of the neighborhood but now it's constant. It drives and accelerates fine. At stop lights it runs but every 8 seconds or so it'll shudder and send out a puff of smoke. The vehicle is a 1025 with a 6.5 non turbo.

Usually on a cold start the engine fires up fine and runs fine for about 5 seconds then goes into a rough idle with again a shudder and puff of smoke every few seconds. Even if i let the engine idle for 20 minutes it will smoke like crazy the entire time. With vehicle stationary and the engine fully warmed up it continues to smoke while at idle and send and extra puff of smoke out every few seconds following a shudder. If i then take the vehicle for a spin it'll look like i'm trying to smoke screen my neighborhood until i drive about 1/4 mile. At that point all smoking stops and all is well except for the rough idle.

I just had the fuel filter changed incase there was a blockage and it didn't do anything. There was one time where i drove the thing for a while parked it and went to restart it and the wait light didn't come on, i turned it off and then to run again and the wait light flashed several times. Other than that i haven't had any issues with it firing up immediately. Anyone ever have this issue?

 

[lavarok]

Injectors?

 

[vitamink]

I figured it'd be glow plugs, the controller, or the injectors. I figured i'd try injectors next so i'm off to buy some. Anyone know any good 6.5 injector deals?

 

[lavarok]

The last set I bought came from summit racing. I got a great price on a set of 8.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Remove the injecotors and take them to a shop and get them POP,tested..., they do it for free.
What color is your smoke? This can be a few things:

1. air in the fuel supply, crack a couple of injector lines while the truck is running to bleed out air.
2. Blocked drain back lines, check to make sure none of the drain back lines are kinked or clogged, the entire,drain back system return unused fuel from the injectors and the IJ pump to the fuel tank, just follow the lines.
3. Bad injector pump....what model pump do you have? You can see the pump number on the left side pump data plate.
4.bad injector
5.bad intake valve guide seals....I just had same issue on a motor, changed out the heads.

if you remove you glow plugs, are any of them wet with oil after driving?

what model EESS box are you running?

Has it always done this?

i wouldn't drive the truck till its fixed....if its excess fuel, which would be white smoke, you run a risk of hosing down the cylinder walls, this washes all the oil away....you need oil on the piston.

but white smoke is also a blown head gasket, and you could be sucking coolant into the combustion chamber.
how is your coolant level? What's does your oil look like?
I would perform a compression test and a cooling system pressure test....one or both of these will tell you if you have a blown head gasket. One quick check for a blown HG, when cold, remove the coolant tank cap, start the truck, look and see if you have bubbles in the coolant tank.....you should not. Your cooling system has less then 15PSI.

i know its alot to take in....but I TRouble shoot these issues weekly.....do the easy stuff first.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

I figured it'd be glow plugs, the controller, or the injectors. I figured i'd try injectors next so i'm off to buy some. Anyone know any good 6.5 injector deals?

glow plugs are only for starting, if all is working correctly, your wait lite will come on for approx 8-10 secs when cold....once warm, it will flash once briefly.
You might also have a bad cold advance solenoid inside the IJ pump....but that will not produce the smoke you are talking about. I have some trucks on the property right now that have old PCB's in them, the trucks only start with starting fluid....no glow plugs work in these trucks, but once started....they blow NO smoke...not warmed up, just started.

 

[vitamink]

Wow, now that's some serious info to digest.

The smoke itself is white and i had several other people come over to look at it and they all agree it's not blue. I do know that my coolant level is perfect and has remained the same. The engine is a NOS crate 6.5, but that's all i know. I think the next step is to have the injectors pop tested. Would bad injectors cause the thing to smoke until driven? I've tried twice to get video but it doesn't want to cooperate. It starts up immediately every time and runs perfect for about 10 seconds then starts smoking and stutters until driven. Once driven it spews serious white smoke for about 1/16 of a mile then it stops smoking but still stutters while idling. At speed everything seems perfect.

Only recently has it started stuttering. It always smoked until driven a short distance. I haven't removed the glow plugs to see if they are "wet". If they were what would that tell me?

As always, your knowledge is incredible and i appreciate all the help.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Really sounds like air in your system, have you checked your fuel drain back lines?
It is also very well a bad injector pump...but pop test the injectors.you should have no smoke...it is not normal.
when you pull them out, tell us the part number, maybe they are the wrong ones...I had the dealership put
Turbo diesel injectors in an NA motor....smoked like crazy.
have you checked to make sure the injector lines are tight at the injectors?

 

[vitamink]

The injector lines were tight. The injectors will be coming out saturday to be pop tested monday. I'll have part numbers for you by then and we'll see if they're the correct ones. If this works i'm buying you a cake.

 

[jdknech]

I suspect you have a injector leaking by, I got a set from memphis diesel injection when i got mine, but SS diesel out of Ohio has them, as well as heath diesel out of california.. if they test ok, then it is your injection pump..

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

I would replace all the Drain back lines while your at it....your Diesel shop should have a kit, the new lines are precut and dont need clamps.
the kit should also have new washers for the Injectors as well...you need a 30mm deep dish socket to get them out, the left rear is a real PITA.

 

[BrushMaster Builder]

Befotre you spend a bunch of money and time, I would recommend running a cylinder cut out test to identify an injector issue. With the truck idling, simply loosen the injector line (one at a time) on each injector (PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE THE LINE COMPLETELY WHILE RUNNING) and see if you notice a difference in the performance and idle of the engine while the line. It will tell you a lot and possibly identify the hole you may be having a problem with. Also, what color is the smoke?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

The truck is already stumbling and blowing unburnt fuel....the test might show what injector is affected but removing the excess fuel while its loosened.

 

[BrushMaster Builder]

Never heard what color smoke.....when you say unburnt I'm assuming the smoke is black?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

The color smoke was mentioned early on....it's white. It could be alot of things, I have seen blown head gaskets do same,but that has other symptoms.
i get these trucks all the time in the shop this way...it's normally injectors or most often a bad pump.

 

[BrushMaster Builder]

Ok got it. Sorry I missed the smoke color posting. Not to quibble, but I've worked with 6.2 and 6.5 (and 5.7...that tells my age) since 83 and I've seen alot of pumps and nozzles changed that didn't need it......sometimes something as stupid as a stuck open thermostat, not allowing the engine to reach operating temperature can cause a poor detonation hence the unburned fuel and intermittent white smoke.
As well, alot of HMMWVS have the Cadillac valve bypassed so.....if the thermostat were stuck open and the fan running all the time....well, you can see my concern.

 

[vitamink]

I just finished and man you weren't kidding on the passenger side one closest to the passenger compartment…WOW what a PITA. I bent a fuel line so i'll need a new one of those (****). They'll be tested monday. I'll advise when i know more. Regarding the controller i have the Nartron Smart start system MFR32498 it also has the number 19207socn12480779 on it. Thanks for all the information so far everyone.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Oh boy....now you be to remove the intake manifold to replace that line. You have to remove the IJ line clamps on the valve covers....I assume u did this?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Ok got it. Sorry I missed the smoke color posting. Not to quibble, but I've worked with 6.2 and 6.5 (and 5.7...that tells my age) since 83 and I've seen alot of pumps and nozzles changed that didn't need it......sometimes something as stupid as a stuck open thermostat, not allowing the engine to reach operating temperature can cause a poor detonation hence the unburned fuel and intermittent white smoke.
As well, alot of HMMWVS have the Cadillac valve bypassed so.....if the thermostat were stuck open and the fan running all the time....well, you can see my concern.

Wouldnt do what's its doing with any of the things you have listed...plus, its smoking at temp as well.
from the OP, the smoke is always there.

 

[vitamink]

Oh boy....now you be to remove the intake manifold to replace that line. You have to remove the IJ line clamps on the valve covers....I assume u did this?

I essentially tried to pull each injector and all came out easy except the last one…that passenger side bastard. I realized too late that the line was twisting and now i have a big silver spring (yay). To remove the line, which oddly enough is located at the bottom of the driver side 4 outlets on the pump making it impossible to get to, required some ingenuity. I don't have a new intake gasket (assuming there is one), so i pulled the engine cover and used a crows foot wrench and a few extensions to remove the line.


I don't know if it'll be that easy to put on that way though and may have to bite the bullet and buy more stuff. BTW i just checked Kascar, and apparently damaging my fuel line was an $89.00 mistake. Hopefully i won't need too many injectors or i'll be broke. I looked at the ends of my injectors and some looked like they had some carbon buildup on them. Others looked newish without any buildup. Are all of the injectors supposed to look the same? Most of them have a knurling around the circumference and a few have "097" stamped on them with no knurling. You guys have been great!