How to turbo a 6.2 using 6.5 parts

[EODTECH90]

noob question but theres a 93 6.5 at the local salvage yard with 293xxx assuming the turbo doesent have a lot of shaft play should i get the whole motor for 400 ( minus 20%) or hold off for a better deal or just pull the requred components??? cause id like to do the turbo setup on the m1009 with the AN fittings and 4" exaust thanks

 

[southdave]

that a good price, take the heads have them checked out, re ring kit the lower end of your exisiting motor, 67-C20 has some good info on building one up..

 

[deepseeman]

how do you adjust the boost on a turbo?

 

[patracy]

how do you adjust the boost on a turbo?

Boost is dependent on fuel and wastegate settings. More fuel = more boost. However, there's too much of a good thing sometimes. (Driving a turbo outside it's map means it's blowing hot air, defeating the purpose. Or too much boost can stress the engine bottom end and head gaskets) So the wastegate is used to bleed off drive pressure limiting boost pressure.

On these engines, there's a wastegate that is vacuum driven. The easiest means to adjust and control the 6.5 turbo setup is a mechanical setup known as a turbo master. You can buy one from heath, or you could just as easily build one if you have the means.

Turbo-Master Boost Controller 1996-2001 Van (Savana) [gm9601] - $119.00 : Heath Diesel, On-line Store

It uses the spring to allow the drive pressure to simply bleed off.

With these engines having such high CR's. It's best to keep the boost under 10psi on the turbo'ed 6.2. The 6.5's have slight lower CR's and can handle about 12-14psi.

 

[Timber]

I bought a complete GM-8 turbo/manifold/oil line off a 99 6.5 for $175 and an upper and lower F-code intake for $120. Mine has the vacuum operated wastegate still on it. There are detailed instuctions on another site, and possibly this one, on how to take that wastegate and turn it into an adjustable one like the Heath for $10 or less. It does require a boost gauge to dail it in, but if you're doing the project, that and a pyro should be mandatory.

 

[thomastinsley]

This is my first post on the site but ive read through this particular thread several times, and im still undecided. I own a 1985 m1009 with around 96,000 miles on it and want to turbo on it no matter what, however, i cannot decide between just ordering the Banks Sidewinder kit or putting the 6.5 turbo on it. Due to trust issus with myself I'll be taking it to a diesel mechanic either way it goes and i was just wondering from a cost stand point which way would be cheaper. I got on the phone with a Banks representative the other day and he quoted me a price for the Sidewinder complete kit that was just South of $3,000

 

[patracy]

Factory 6.5 setup all the way. Crossover pipe and downpipe are the only fabrication really needed. The rest is factory bolt ons. I won't go into what I think of Gail Banks and his son.

 

[southdave]

The 6.5 is way better... There are some parts that requrie some attendtion..
SS diesel sells the the manifold studs.. also the there are a couple bolts in the frame( bump stop ect.) that may need wiz wheeled off.. becareful of the oil situtaion oil feed tube and oil pump. I used an 3AN hose to feed my turbo (too big) off the block above the oil cooler lines. it straved the rear of worn out motor, wipe out the cam ect..

 

[thomastinsley]

the oil situation was one of my bigger concerns with the project, that and adjusting the fuel pump and all. Will new oil lines have to be made or is there some kind of kit i can buy somewhere? Also, the motor is leaking and burning a little oil. Would it be wise to go ahead and replace the head gaskets will we have the motor semi-torn apart?

 

[nattieleather]

Where do you all tap the oil feed line for the turbo. All the pictures I've seen show the line going somewhere to the back of the motor, but I can't see exactly where it taps into. Any help on this would be great. Thanks

 

[chevyCUCV]

Performance wise the banks wins hands down. They use a well made exhaust manifold that feeds the crossover directly into the turbo, not the 2 rear cylinders.
Also they use a nice turbo in a T04b, far better than the hairdryer, choking POS gmx turbos.

I hate the 6.5 turbo set ups, they are a terrible design.
That said they are CHEAP, which wins most every time

 

[patracy]

Where do you all tap the oil feed line for the turbo. All the pictures I've seen show the line going somewhere to the back of the motor, but I can't see exactly where it taps into. Any help on this would be great. Thanks

The feed comes from the rear valley of the engine, I tee'ed off the feed port from the oil pressure sender for my hose.

Performance wise the banks wins hands down. They use a well made exhaust manifold that feeds the crossover directly into the turbo, not the 2 rear cylinders.
Also they use a nice turbo in a T04b, far better than the hairdryer, choking POS gmx turbos.

I hate the 6.5 turbo set ups, they are a terrible design.
That said they are CHEAP, which wins most every time

WHAHHHAHHHAAHHAAA

Guess who developed GM's factory turbo setup?

Banks sucks. Unless you're a weekend warrior that buys into the hype they spin hook line and sinker. Sure Banks does make power, but HP to $ ratio is VERY low when you're paying for Gale Banks' stuff. Guess he's gotta pay that son of his to troll all the internet performance forums to keep anyone from speaking the truth.

I've got a small fortune in performance parts in my Dodge. I'd have double the money if I used a "banks" system and not nearly the power.

Banks also tries to sell their "clean power" as well. Yes, soot is wasted fuel and higher EGTs. But Gail pumps so much propane and nitrous into his race trucks that I'm willing to bet he burns more of those than diesel. All in a ploy to market his wares.

I won't deny, they certainly have marketing down pat though!

 

[chevyCUCV]

All the BS about people and marketing aside, look at the two manifolds, which would you rather have? Ignore my stupid writing in the photo, i used it to educate someone before

And the GMX(1- turbos are only good at spooling up to 10 psi, after that the back pressure ratio goes to 2x boost ratios. Not good at all for any PERFORMANCE, which is what i stated. Also the exhaust manifold is tiny and can choke the engine at higher rpms, big problem for me the driving i do with my m1008. The TO4B is a much better choice, in my opinion. Lower backpressure is easier on the engine.

I would never buy any parts that cost more than my truck, which is why i am piecing together my turbo set up, i got a gm manifold Brand new for 50, so i will use it, i would just rather use the banks manifold.

 

[patracy]

I won't deny that the banks manfold has the potential for less turbulence. Or the fact that the GM turbos aren't stellar performers. I just don't like Banks one bit after a spat I had with his Son. (I invite you to browse ANY diesel performance forum/website and solicit feedback on Banks products and dealings)

I will warn you though, these engines were never designed to make tons of power. They simply will not handle more than 12psi of boost. (Well they will, but if you want to play with a timebomb...)

You mentioned backpressure. I assume you mean drive pressure since you mentioned boost ratio? 2:1 ratios is where things tend to get dicey. The pressure tends to pound on the turbine shaft of the turbo. Along with increasing the cylinder pressures. (Stressing HG's and bottom ends)

While we're talking about performance myths of the 6.2/6.5. Can I mention "performance injectors". This is a fallacy as well in an IDI diesel. The injectors are not a pencil tip'ed injector that directly atomizes fuel in the cyl. Instead they simply fog fuel into the pre-cup which then swirls down into the piston crown.

If one wanted to really soup up a 6.2/6.5 you'd need the following:

Pristine block with splayed main caps
Main girdle
Better crank
A better chain drive or a gear drive for the cam (jury is out on that one due to harmonics)
A custom ground cam
Studs for the bottom end
Better rods with studs
Marine coated pistons (lowers CR to 18:1 as well)
A MLS HG
Head studs
P&P heads
Rocker studs
Balanced and blue printed bottom end.

With all of that and a decent turbo setup, you should be able to easily/safely make an honest 300hp day in and day out. While all of that might sound excessive, remember you're doubling what a 6.2 was intended to produce. (And have something that could spin happily at 3K RPM in a M1008 variant's gearing)

 

[richingalveston]

thanks for the info

I have been taking my time absorbing all of the turbo info out there becasue my 1009 will eventually have one but prob. not till christmas.

thanks for sharing the mannifold pics, I have never seen a banks manifold. yes it looks less restrictive where the cross over is but looks more restrictive on the cylinders farther from the cross over end. where the gm appears to have better output from the front cylinders.

looking at the manifolds it also appears that the banks turbo would be much closer to the firewall than the GM thus making the cramped exhaust and crossover pipe even more difficult to install. The banks seams to make it harder to get the exhaust outside the frame for those who do not want to notch the frame.

I have a banks intake and turbo on my cummins 6bt and I do like it but thats also because its a 12 valve 6bt.

Has anyone installed the believed to be better banks turbo on a gm exhaust manifold? Is there a best of both worlds, maybe just using banks turbo only with all the other gm parts.

I have heard many bad things about the banks organization but also many bad things obout gm products.

when it comes to money, I know banks is overpriced and since i want to put all the extras in the drive train, I will probably end up with a gm set up because I can't see where the extra money for the few extra horses is worth it. I have a while to stew on it and possibly win the lottery so my mind is not made up.

Please keep up the info wars, I need to absorb it all.

Thanks,

 

[chevyCUCV]

looking at the manifolds it also appears that the banks turbo would be much closer to the firewall than the GM thus making the cramped exhaust and crossover pipe even more difficult to install. The banks seams to make it harder to get the exhaust outside the frame for those who do not want to notch the frame.
Please keep up the info wars, I need to absorb it all.

Thanks,

You have it backwards, the turbo mounts further forward(towards radiator) on the banks turbo. The crosover goes under the oil pan then.
And yes you can mount a variety of turbos on the gm manifold. It is t3 flange, very common

And thank you Patracy for your posts, i enjoy talking turbos and i too am learning as i go

 

[francisf16]

Great discussion, keep it going!

 

[richingalveston]

banks drivers side

does banks have a driverside mannifold also that takes the crossover output in the back and move it to the front also. so that the crossover is not running from the back corner to the front opposite corner of the engine.

looks like the cross over would be fairly tricky with the stock, rear output of the driverside maninfold.

And if you run it under oil pan is it in front of the frame cross member or behind.

I am going to have to look at my 1009 to get a better idea of identifying the exhaust clearances when running cross over under the oil pan to the front.
If anyone has any pics of the cross over using banks manifold I would like to see them.

thank you,

 

[Timber]

Question on using two manifold gaskets to clear the injectors - can't you use the shorter 6.5 injectors instead?

Also, do the marine 6.5 injectors make more power?

 

[thomastinsley]

Thank yall for this information, it has been extremely helpful, however, i do have just a few more questions. Does banks usually let people modify the sidewinder kit? i really dont need the exhaust system as i was planning on doing just a turbo back exhaust. And could i replace the sidewinder turbo with a wastegated turbo? I really like the way it sounds when it blows out the extra air (kind of silly, i know). sorry if i sound extremely ignorant on this matter buy ive never dealt with anything like this before.