Injector pump timing mep-003a

EnzoG

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I am trying to set the injector pump timing on my 003a and am having trouble. If I turn the engine clockwise while on the blower end and watch the valves for #1 cylinder (the cylinder on the blower end) the exhaust valve closes and just before the intake valve opens the PC mark is lined up with the pointer on the flywheel. The manual makes me think the pc mark should be on the compression stroke and not on the intake stroke. If I set the timing with the procedure in the manual I will have the fuel injecting right when the intake valve opens. I have attached pictures of the flywheel marks that my genset has (The PC mark didnt show up in the picture but the marks above and below it are visible). After rotating the engine clockwise from the PC mark I see an A and then a bunch of random marks and then a B.

What am I doing wrong here guys? Also, thank you in advance for any help.
 

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Ray70

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Your thinking is correct, PC should come up almost 1/4 rotation after the #1 intake valve closes and the compression stroke begins. The A and B marks I believe are references for valve lash adjustment. It's mentioned somewhere in the TM.
Can you give us the history on this machine? Is it new to you, does it run, did it ever run? This info will help us figure out what's going on.
When the flywheel is at the PC mark, does the 1/8" drill bit seem to align into the slot in the injection pump gear, when you remove the little screw on the left side of pump?
 

EnzoG

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The generator is new to me. It shows 377 hours and the only markings on it say that the fan bolts got changed. It had obviously been sitting for many years before I bought it and I changed the oil and filters and flushed the fuel tank, lines, and strainer. After this the generator would run for a minute or two and start loading down and smoking (black smoke) and then die and the cylinders seemed quite hot. I tried running it a second time while watching the shut off solenoid to make sure that wasnt the issue and the oil pressure looked great too. After researching it seemed like the IP timing was out 180* so I adjusted the pump so the slot was lined up with a drill bit at the PC mark. After this I moved on to the flow test and realized I had an issue when they said the fuel would begin to inject at PC.

The TM made it seem like the flywheel is only held on by a taper and no key or anything so I am thinking that it may have shifted at some point. None of the bellhousing bolts look like they have ever been touched. The generator is messy but for something that lived in Maine its not bad at all.
 

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Ray70

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The flywheel is held to the crankshaft with a taper fit and a key. It's possible the key sheared off and the flywheel has spun, but that is fairly unlikely. Also, if that had happened, you would not be able to get the drill bit to align with the IP slot while the pointer is at PC. The IP would remain correctly timed to the engine and only the PC mark would be out of alignment. I think we need to do more investigation before you pull the engine off to check the flywheel.
 

Chainbreaker

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Since you say it sat for years I'm wondering if you might have a stuck or malfunctioning injector(s)? If they sat for a long-long time any residual fuel may have gummed them up. That might cause it to run hot as you described. You could take all your injectors to a fuel injector shop, or see if anyone here on SS has the ability to do it, and have them ck pop-off pressure. FYI - New fuel injector nozzels run about $200 ea on eBay. Search on "147-0136 Onan Fuel Injector Nozzle MEP002A MEP003A NSN 2910-00-869-5".

At the very least, you should take them out inspect them visually and put them in a cleaner (Seafoam, Acetone, etc.) and let them soak overnight. I have a ultrasonic jewelry cleaner that I often use to put small parts in. The ultrasonic action gradually heats up the solvent and you would be amazed at the crud that ultrasonic cleaning works out of small parts.
 
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Guyfang

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While I never really trust the TT, (Time Totaling Meter) from the look of the set and hour meter, I think you should try going back a step, or two. The symptoms you describe, don't sound like a timing problem to me. When the set ran, did the volt/hertz meters come up? Will it start now?

Like Ray, I think its very unlikely that the flywheel has spun. Eight years of running a DS shop, and we never had a failure like that.

Like chainbreaker, this sounds much more like a fuel/fuel delivery problem.

In picture number 3, I noticed the exhaust elbows not directing the hot gasses away from the battery tray. The reason the elbows are there is to keep the batteries from over heating. So unless you have a need to vent the exhaust differently, you should do that. You can see the exhaust has been blowing down onto the fuel tank also. Not good.
 
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Ray70

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When you do the IP timing, be sure you hold the throttle wide open. Begin with the motor set so PC is slightly below the pointer. turn teh pumps on and watch the fuel flow from port #1. Rotate the motor slowly until fuel flow stops. the pointer should now be very close to the PC mark. If so I suspect you have 1 or more injectors that are either leaking or sticking open.
If that's the case I am set up to repair and pop test them. You can also replace the needle and nozzle with the gaskets. the kit is $50 ea. on ebay.
 

EnzoG

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I removed the injectors and cleaned them and replaced the gaskets before starting the unit and replaced the glow plugs. The injector pump slot didn't line up with the PC mark on the flywheel at first but I lined them up and then moved on to the flow test. At that point I realized PC was when cylinder 1 would start injecting fuel and that should be just before the top of the compression stroke. The problem is that PC on my unit is lined up with the pointer right at the start of the intake stroke. I tried the flow test with the throttle wide open after re-timing the IP and it is on but I dont want to start the generator because I am afraid of damaging it. I turned the exhaust elbows so they are pointing away from the fuel tank and batteries. There is fuel returning to the tank and all of the lines got flushed out before the first start.

The thing is that the voltage and frequency meters are not showing anything on the unit and I started it up with a multimeter in the auxilary outlet and once I got that set to 60hz it was only showing a little over 4 volts. I figured I just needed to flash the field once the engine was running properly.

The thing that gets me is that black smoke will roll out of both pipes as it starts to die so that makes me think that the IP is increasing fuel to more than one cylinder at the same time. That makes me think that its not an injector issue and also not a lack of fuel issue.

Thank you for all of the replies too! Hopefully I can figure this thing out without pulling the engine off.
 

Ray70

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So as of now, the flow test was successful and the pin inserted into the IP slot and flywheel PC mark are in alignment, correct?
My thinking is that since the IP drives off the cam, if the flywheel had sheared the key and spun, I would expect it to be impossible to align the PC mark and actual fuel shutting off due to the cam being way out of sync with the flywheel, but maybe someone else can chime in and confirm?

Maybe you can remove the #1 injector and use a small wire down the cyl. to feel the piston come up as you rotate the motor and try to find TDC and see where the flywheel compares to the piston movement?

Pull the motor or gen as a last resort, although its not that hard at all.
Good Luck!
 

Guyfang

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Ray, that's always a option. A Warrant friend of mine was in "The Dark Continent" doing things we can not discuss, when a D7 dozer went down for an engine, according to his people. He ordered one, (50K+) and when it arrived, they put it in. Same problem. He flew in, opened the air filter, and was looking for someone to shoot. When looking at real dark black or gray exhaust, the first thought should be Air.
 

EnzoG

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I did replace the air filter and make sure the intake was open. It is also set to summer mode on the air filter housing. I guess I can drop the exhaust valve onto the piston and use a dial indicator to find tdc. Then just make a new PC mark?
 

Ray70

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I think for sanity sake the best bet might be to determine ( through the TM or others here ) where the PC mark is relative to #1 TDC , then drop a valve and find TDC and see where you are at. PC is not an indication of TDC, it is somewhere before, but I don't know off hand how many degrees before. Maybe someone here already knows?
In the operator -12 manual it says the "A" mark on the flywheel is used to adjust the valves on cyl#1 and indicates the #1 cyl. is in power stroke, but it does not say if "A" is TDC on the power stroke or part way down. Either way, don't expect PC to be TDC.
 

joefish

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The problem is that PC on my unit is lined up with the pointer right at the start of the intake stroke.

This is a four stroke motor --- spin the crank around one more time !!
 

jamawieb

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If it were me, I would take the IP apart to examine the plunger guide. I've had several units that were gummed up and caused the plunger to round off the plunger guide which would give in accurate flow test readings. What would happen is the plunger would spin just a little in the guide which caused the flow testing to be off. Usually you would have the plunger guide break in half, which would cause no starts or other problems. But I've had them strip which cause weird flow problems. Sometimes the units would run and then would act like starving for full.
 

profo

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What I normally do to see if the injectors are at least decent is Remove them from engine flip the tubing line over and hook injectors back to pump outside the engine then crank it while observing if you have a spray at the nozzle this checks the fuel delivery in one step. Then if that works it's got to be timing or air/compresion while injectors are still out turn motor by hand with your thumb in #1 injector hole in head when it pushing air out stop flywheel at the timing mark on flywheel put the alignment pin in the injector pump and assemble back on motor your should be ready to go after that.
 

EnzoG

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I finally got the flywheel on correctly and got the injector pump timed. I removed the delivery valve spring and did the flow test on the injector pump. Everything was exactly in time so I went on and got the valves adjusted. After that I fired up the generator and dialed it in at 60 hz. After the engine had warmed up the oil pressure had dropped from 60 psi to around 35 and the exhaust louvers had opened half way up. There was white smoke from the generator side exhaust pipe but it had cleared to a light white haze at this time.

The engine was making a quick pop every once in a while like it was picking up on a cylinder or something and the governor was moving and the hz on my multi meter increase by .5-1hz. All 4 of the cylinders seemed hot though so I left it running
After about 10 minutes of total run time the engine just took off. I grabbed the fuel rack and pulled it down all the way and it shut down slowly.

After deciding it may have been the other cylinder starting to fire I restarted the generator. It was once again running at 60 hz but after a couple minutes started speeding up again. At this time I tried using the fuel rack to control the speed. Nothing happened and the engine kept speeding up. Both cylinders blowing out black smoke. I turned the run switch off and grabbed the air filter inlet and ripped it off. Then flipped it over and stuck it down. The engine screemed for a while blowing black smoke everywhere. Then it finally died out.

Needless to say I would kind of like to fix the problem before restarting the engine. If anyone has an idea whats wrong please let me know.
 

Chainbreaker

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Wow, that's not good having a run-away situation! Sounds like either over fueling due to an injection pump issue (internal) or something in the governor mechanism.

Any chance you can take some close up pictures of the governor setup (star wheel & spring) and the shutdown solenoid linkages (arm, ball joint etc.). Have you watched those linkages while in operation?

Yeah, I would not restart it either until you are able to determine the cause and make repairs.
 

Guyfang

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Wow, that's not good having a run-away situation! Sounds like either over fueling due to an injection pump issue (internal) or something in the governor mechanism.
If you cant slow it down with the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid, (I assume that's what you are calling a fuel rack) then it can only be a injector pump problem. What else can it be?
Any chance you can take some close up pictures of the governor setup (star wheel & spring) and the shutdown solenoid linkages (arm, ball joint etc.). Have you watched those linkages while in operation?

Yeah, I would not restart it either until you are able to determine the cause and make repairs.
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