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Drew please see the following thread, it has updates and we need some help!
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...nd-other-States-Members&p=1438429#post1438429
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Legal Issues that could effect all MV Owners
- Thread starter mtullis
- Start date
Drew please see the following thread, it has updates and we need some help!
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...nd-other-States-Members&p=1438429#post1438429
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Okay looks like we need some updates on the subject so I will update in this thread and then we can then point the other threads to this thread. Over the last few months I have learned way more than I ever thought about government, federal law, FMVSS, NHTSB, etc etc.
The issue for Georgia is that the Georgia Department of Revenue, which controls title and registration has stated that the 932A2's manufactured by BMY Harsco do not meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, FMVSS and thus can not be titled in GA. A standard AM General 932 can be titled because the VIN software that is being used by the state of GA and throughout most of the states has the AM General listed in the database. Most states get the VIN software master file from the Federal level and use that as the basis the states use to determine which vehicles have passed the FMVSS.
Commander Zout did go through the process of trying to legally register his vehicle and was denied. The key part of this process was we got in writing the reason that he was denied. Armed with this information we have started a 2 prong attack:
1.) Legislative changes
2.) Correction on the original ruling
Both of these attacks are in play at the moment but we are waiting on a ruling on item 2 after review to determine the legislative move but are lined up for the upcoming legislative session if necessary.
Now there is a ton of false information that has been passed around on this issue, the Wisconsin issue and more. Once we get this issue resolved I will post a tremendous amount of research and supporting documentation that can be used for other states or similar issues. At the moment I would like to stay more under the radar on this issue.
Secondarily there are members who have these registered in the state of Georgia but not legally. They are registered through the following methods:
1.) Calling the truck an AM General
2.) A local registration office override on the software to allow the registration
We are working to educate the Department of Revenue and if necessary get the legislation updated to properly reflect the federal law.
I will keep everyone posted as we get more updates and once we get resolution we will have a tremendous amount of additional information.
The issue for Georgia is that the Georgia Department of Revenue, which controls title and registration has stated that the 932A2's manufactured by BMY Harsco do not meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, FMVSS and thus can not be titled in GA. A standard AM General 932 can be titled because the VIN software that is being used by the state of GA and throughout most of the states has the AM General listed in the database. Most states get the VIN software master file from the Federal level and use that as the basis the states use to determine which vehicles have passed the FMVSS.
Commander Zout did go through the process of trying to legally register his vehicle and was denied. The key part of this process was we got in writing the reason that he was denied. Armed with this information we have started a 2 prong attack:
1.) Legislative changes
2.) Correction on the original ruling
Both of these attacks are in play at the moment but we are waiting on a ruling on item 2 after review to determine the legislative move but are lined up for the upcoming legislative session if necessary.
Now there is a ton of false information that has been passed around on this issue, the Wisconsin issue and more. Once we get this issue resolved I will post a tremendous amount of research and supporting documentation that can be used for other states or similar issues. At the moment I would like to stay more under the radar on this issue.
Secondarily there are members who have these registered in the state of Georgia but not legally. They are registered through the following methods:
1.) Calling the truck an AM General
2.) A local registration office override on the software to allow the registration
We are working to educate the Department of Revenue and if necessary get the legislation updated to properly reflect the federal law.
I will keep everyone posted as we get more updates and once we get resolution we will have a tremendous amount of additional information.
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I have gotten some questions behind the scenes and wanted to add some additional information to clarify the situation. As of today the current Georgia law is as follows:
All vehicle owners who are required by law to have their vehicle registered in Georgia must also apply for a title when the vehicle requires a title.
The title law was changed last year so past experience with the GA DMV and registrations does not apply today.
So let’s look at when a title is required.
1.) Vehicles 1986 and new require a title
2.) Vehicles aged 1963-1985 a title is optional but the sale needs a signed title
3.) Vehicles older than 1962 do not require a title
So a newer than 1986 model vehicle whether a military vehicle or not requires a title. Now if you look at the Georgia law regarding what legally can be titled it states the requirement for FMVSS compliance.
O.C.G.A. 40-3-30 (2010)
40-3-30. Requirement of compliance with federal safety standards
(a) In addition to the reasons set forth in Code Section 40-3-29, no application shall be accepted and no certificate of title shall be issued to any motor vehicle which was not manufactured to comply with applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards issued pursuant to 49 U.S.C.A. Section 30101, et seq., unless and until the United States Customs Service or the United States Department of Transportation has certified that the motor vehicle complies with such applicable federal standards and unless all documents required by the commissioner for processing an application for a certificate of registration or title are printed and filled out in the English language or are accompanied by an English translation.
(b) The provisions of subsection (a) of this Code section shall only apply to applications for certificates of title for such motor vehicles first titled in Georgia after July 1, 1985. Certification of compliance shall only be required at the time of application for the issuance of the initial Georgia certificate of title - See more at: http://statutes.laws.com/georgia/title-40/chapter-3/article-2/40-3-30#sthash.NLIScVUr.dpuf
I hope this clarifies the current laws on the books of the state of Georgia.
All vehicle owners who are required by law to have their vehicle registered in Georgia must also apply for a title when the vehicle requires a title.
The title law was changed last year so past experience with the GA DMV and registrations does not apply today.
So let’s look at when a title is required.
1.) Vehicles 1986 and new require a title
2.) Vehicles aged 1963-1985 a title is optional but the sale needs a signed title
3.) Vehicles older than 1962 do not require a title
So a newer than 1986 model vehicle whether a military vehicle or not requires a title. Now if you look at the Georgia law regarding what legally can be titled it states the requirement for FMVSS compliance.
O.C.G.A. 40-3-30 (2010)
40-3-30. Requirement of compliance with federal safety standards
(a) In addition to the reasons set forth in Code Section 40-3-29, no application shall be accepted and no certificate of title shall be issued to any motor vehicle which was not manufactured to comply with applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards issued pursuant to 49 U.S.C.A. Section 30101, et seq., unless and until the United States Customs Service or the United States Department of Transportation has certified that the motor vehicle complies with such applicable federal standards and unless all documents required by the commissioner for processing an application for a certificate of registration or title are printed and filled out in the English language or are accompanied by an English translation.
(b) The provisions of subsection (a) of this Code section shall only apply to applications for certificates of title for such motor vehicles first titled in Georgia after July 1, 1985. Certification of compliance shall only be required at the time of application for the issuance of the initial Georgia certificate of title - See more at: http://statutes.laws.com/georgia/title-40/chapter-3/article-2/40-3-30#sthash.NLIScVUr.dpuf
I hope this clarifies the current laws on the books of the state of Georgia.
buzwagon
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Im
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Munchies
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So with the 5 tons technically meeting fmvss its good to go?
zout
Well-known member
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Munchies - have to remember we are talking Georgia here and not any other State.
Lots of members have them registered - titled in other States with no issues.
Some members have them misrepresented to get them registered and titled.
Swiss is in the process for GEORGIA ONLY to write a draft that will be presented to the General Committee come January to be viewed hopefully pushing this into a Bill that has to be brought up at least 3 times then voted on a final time.
At this time it is going to cost some $$$$ for us to get a Lobbyist who can push internally and put this in front of members who will then get other members on line so we can get this passed. Without a Lobbyist we are dead in the water - to date we have gone internally as far as we can go - now it becomes real politics and workings of a General Committee & not to mention the Lobbyist again at a free for us.
In 4 more years if we just let this truck sit - we can legally get it titled and registered under the historic code - I think I wish to drive it before then legally.
There are only a very few on board getting and working on this - if no one else in GA helps and the law pass's they get a FREE RIDE off other folks backs. Kind of like today with they are ENTITLED TO IT & not concerned to assist in any way. That is not meant to sound harsh - just a fact of life.
We are continuing on anyway and proceeding as necessary in the best way we can.
Anyone in Georgia wishing to help or find out what they can do - PM Swiss. I prefer just to work in the background.
Lots of members have them registered - titled in other States with no issues.
Some members have them misrepresented to get them registered and titled.
Swiss is in the process for GEORGIA ONLY to write a draft that will be presented to the General Committee come January to be viewed hopefully pushing this into a Bill that has to be brought up at least 3 times then voted on a final time.
At this time it is going to cost some $$$$ for us to get a Lobbyist who can push internally and put this in front of members who will then get other members on line so we can get this passed. Without a Lobbyist we are dead in the water - to date we have gone internally as far as we can go - now it becomes real politics and workings of a General Committee & not to mention the Lobbyist again at a free for us.
In 4 more years if we just let this truck sit - we can legally get it titled and registered under the historic code - I think I wish to drive it before then legally.
There are only a very few on board getting and working on this - if no one else in GA helps and the law pass's they get a FREE RIDE off other folks backs. Kind of like today with they are ENTITLED TO IT & not concerned to assist in any way. That is not meant to sound harsh - just a fact of life.
We are continuing on anyway and proceeding as necessary in the best way we can.
Anyone in Georgia wishing to help or find out what they can do - PM Swiss. I prefer just to work in the background.
wreckerman893
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Since my M927A2 (HARSCO/BMY) is legally titled in Alabama can I sell it to someone in GA and using my title can that person then get a GA title?
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zout
Well-known member
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Using the flavor I do in answering questions - not NO but H## NO. Ga does not have to or will recognize another States Title on the MV's that date after 1986.
Now - can I express to you WHY more folks need to volunteer to get on board with this for Georgia. It not only just effects us.
Now - can I express to you WHY more folks need to volunteer to get on board with this for Georgia. It not only just effects us.
Munchies
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Zout I know it is GA only, I just had been following along.
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What about selling a non-titled 1963 - 1985 truck like the 1973 m819 that I just have a registrations for it, when I registered it, I did have the signed NJ. title, GA. said that if I wanted a title, I would have to get it NOTORIZED IN NJ, (right) but said I did not NEED a title to register it for use in GA, ??????
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- 2,699
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The problem is that Harsco is not a listed vehicle in the GA state DMV database. Thus when you try and register the clerk says we do not have this vehicle listed in the database. Then you ask for supervisors, then go above the local office head, then up through the ranks of the DMV until you get to the department of Revenue. The department of Revenue looks at this and says it does not have a FMVSS certificate and is younger than 1986 and you are done. This is a true story.
Ron if you have a vehicle 1986 or older then it does not require a title.
Ron if you have a vehicle 1986 or older then it does not require a title.
Munchies
Member
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Roger. I saw all of that, but is there no way to prove FMVSS like the other guy in WI? did..?
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Try asking Santa! ![[thumbzup]](https://www.steelsoldiers.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumzup.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbzup]")
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I have to write a draft of a new law and get it to our legislative sponsors and try to get the law changed this springs legislative session. That is what we are working on. Paul from Wisconsin has been very helpful with insight and thoughts in this process.
Csm Davis
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Okay I understand that this a ga specific problem. I also know that you might have a big alliance in GL if you can put the right pressure in place as they are illegally selling trucks in Ga without titles for road use. This has worked in other states to the point they now send titles for that state with the sf97.
zout
Well-known member
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corrected post
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Csm Davis
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Zout or anyone that can answer, does Ga not have a law stating that all vehicles sold in the state that were made after a certain date probably 86 must have a title? If there is such a law and someone was to push this GL would start pushing to help fix this problem.
zout
Well-known member
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Answer to your question is yes.
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Csm Davis
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The reason I am bringing up GL is they are doing a lot of sales at truck center in Atlanta and other places in Ga. Would think that this could be used to help pressure them into helping y'all. They have much more to lose than just a few of us that buy or sell a few trucks.