M1010 for my daughter the field biologist

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Robo McDuff

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It's time to discuss options with my daughter, once she returns from the mountains of Wyoming enough to get a cell signal.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.
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You're right, a lot of info here already, take your picks before you get swamped with more.

I think you're doing a great job "above and beyond the call of duty" on this one helping out your daughter. If you and she do not mind, let us know what her ideas and final choices are.

Even better, let her join SS once she has a truck. Enough people here who would run out to help if she ever got stuck somewhere (I can not do that, a wee bit to far away from here ;-)).
 

VPed

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I have a ¾ ton, single cab, long bed, diesel pickup truck that I bought used many years ago with 50.000 miles on it. It came with a locking rear differential from the factory. I replaced the stock tires with slightly taller and wider tires, on the stock wheels.
I then purchased a used slide-in, popup, truck camper. This camper was about 15 years old at the time but had only been used by the original owners about ten times. The camper has about 18 inches of vinyl/fabric walls for the popup section so it is not a true hard side camper when deployed. It has a full size bed over the pickup cab and the dining table converts to a single bunk. It has a small sink with about a 15 gallon fresh water tank. The sink drain has a regular garden hose connection to the outside so it can be hooked to a portable grey-water tank/bucket or drained through a short hose to the ground if allowable by the camping area. It has a three burner stove, heater, ice box, and plenty of cabinet space. I have a cassette toilet that stows in one of the cabinets under the lower bunk. When on the truck, the space around the truck’s wheel wells is secured by doors at the rear of the camper, providing additional storage, useful for long and/or dirtier objects.
The top can be extended literally in 20 seconds. Putting it down takes a little longer due to ensuring the fabric is tucked back inside and not pinched, but still quick and easy. It uses a crank handle for this and requires little effort. I bought the camper in Utah so it came with “insulated vinyl” for help when it is cold outside. The fabric portion has clear vinyl windows with zippers and screens so they can be opened for ventilation and inside blinds for privacy. These windows run the full length of both side and the full width of the rear. When the blinds are up, you still have lots of privacy really since they are up at head level from the inside and some 9 to ten feet off the ground. There is a glass window on the passenger side, below the fabric portion and a sliding glass window on the front that matches up with the sliding window on the back of the pickup cab. This can be used to get from the camper to the cab or back, if needed. When the top is down, it is a pretty secure setup and it is not bad when the top is up due to how high off the ground the fabric portion is.
This setup off-roads extremely well since it is not as tall as a regular slide in and it is lighter due to not having a permanent toilet or shower with associated grey and black water tanks. (We have used an inflatable kid’s pool for rudimentary bathing.) I have had this in some pretty lonely, rugged areas where help is not easy to come by so I installed a 10,000 lb. winch on the truck for self-recovery purposes (not been needed for that to date). Due to the lower profile when down, vehicle mileage is not too bad and the cross-winds have less effect when compared to a regular slide in.
I put this rig together precisely with my wife and daughter’s needs while camping in mind. It has served us well and we have many memorable outings under our belts as a result. I put in well under $20k into this and the truck now has north of 200,000 miles on it so I believe I have darned sure gotten my money’s worth. By the way, the truck is a 1997 Chevy with a 6.5 turbo diesel so it compares closely to the CUCV II. In fact, now that the original paint is peeling, I am considering the CUCV II clone route.

I agree with the suggestions of a HD pickup with a slide in camper. I'm sharing my experience so you have insight into the difference between full size and popup camper versions. There is quite a bit of variety available just within the slide in truck camper category. Some have lots of creature comforts and even slide outs, albeit with cost, size and weight implications.

 

FASTNOVA

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Here's my 2 cents into this bucket of info.
I would make sure whatever vehicle you do decide on that it have selectable lockers on both the front and rear.

Example: Say if she is going down a muddy road and even though she is in 4WD she manages to get stuck. No worries, she can just flip a switch lock both axles back out of a situation and choose a different route.
Now with that said I would emphasize that she only use the lockers to get herself out of a situation and not deeper into it, but that’s where training comes in.
Best of luck and let us know what you choose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85-8IozvwVg
 

Another Ahab

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Here's my 2 cents into this bucket of info.
I would make sure whatever vehicle you do decide on that it have selectable lockers on both the front and rear.
System seems like a no-brainer:

- But is there a trade-off in having it?

Other than its cost of course; risk of damage to power train or anything?
 

Csm Davis

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I have driven and owned most of the trucks that everyone has tossed out and they are good selections, but dollar for dollar the most truck for the money that fits her needs is still a refurbished M1010. A Uni MOG is a great money is no object vehicle and would be top of my list if I could afford one. The only thing I would consider other than a M1010 would be a 4x4 ambulance built like the M1010 with a newer one ton Ford or Dodge pickup chassis because of the solid axle. Most of the other trucks do not meet the requirements very well.
 

frank8003

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You just missed Arnolds truck for sale at http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/get-da-unimog-schwarzeneggers-miltary-grade-u1300-sale/#/6

and if you want to see one work then see the end of the movie Medicine Man
72 seconds in the last 10 minutes of movie, long shots and extreme close-up shots of a white U1300 (guess is ex-military, by roof hatch) doors removed, being driven across burnt out rain forest in South America.

I I forgot to ask if the daughter can really drive good.
 

FASTNOVA

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System seems like a no-brainer:

- But is there a trade-off in having it?

Other than its cost of course; risk of damage to power train or anything?
No, I would just make sure to go with the Eaton elocker. Many 4wd vehicles like the Hummers and Toyota Tacoma TRD models had Elockers from the factory. ARB makes a selectable locker too, but it is air operated. From a friend that works at 4wheel parts he says the air lockers leak all the time and you have to have on board air to operate them.
 

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OK guys. I put in an offer on an M1010. Haven't heard back from the owner yet, which induces some anxiety...

While I wait, I was looking into tires. I'm hoping for guidance once again from those with experience off road in these vehicles.

The 6.2 hits it's max torque around 2100 RPM. In the M1010 it's governed at 3600 RPM. I'm told that it's most fuel efficient to run the engine at the lowest RPM where it develops it's max torque, so our fuel efficiency target is 2100 RPM. Our target speed for keeping up with traffic is 75 MPH. Here's my math:
circumference_in*RPM/gear_ratio = inches/minute. Divide by 63360 in/mile, and multiply 60 min/hour, and you get MPH.
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If my math is correct, with the stock M1010, 2100RPM gets you 43.2MPH and 3600RPM gets you 74MPH.
Throw in a Gearvendor's overdrive and        2100RPM gets you 55.4MPH and 2845RPM gets you 75MPH.
Change the axles from 4.56 to 3.73 and       2100RPM gets you 67.7MPH and 2328RPM gets you 75MPH.
Change the axles from 4.56 to 3.54 and       2100RPM gets you 71.3MPH and 2210RPM gets you 75MPH.
Or leave the axles alone and mount 37" tires 2100RPM gets you 65  MPH and 2424RPM gets you 75MPH.

So changing to 37" tires is roughly the equivalent of changing to a 3.88 axle.

The truck has a nice set of stock tires. I can re-gear the axles for the price of 1 or 2 37" mounted tires. And since a 37" tire costs $300-600 more than a stock 31.5" tire, it seems more cost effective to change the axle gearing. Especially when you consider replacing those tires every 40,000 miles, the fact that they're twice as heavy when you go to change a tire, and you have to raise the truck and its center of gravity 4" to accommodate them. The bigger tires do buy you another ~2.5" of ground clearance, which is nice.

I note that the current Chevy C3500 uses a 3.73 axle, and it generates over 3X the torque with it's 6.6L turbocharged diesel. The M1009 has a 3.08 axle. Since the M1010 will rarely carry much weight at all, perhaps a 3.54 axle is a reasonable choice?

I'm very new to all this. I'm trying to avoid making stupid decisions, so I'm here asking the experts. It seems to me that an overdrive and re-gearing the hubs will cost about the same as a lift kit and 37" tires. And running on stock tires will dramatically reduce maintenance costs and difficulty of changing a tire.

Am I missing something? Is the extra 2.5" of ground clearance worth the expense of 37" tires?
 

microjeep

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Overdrive unit is the only option that does not raise off road gearing this will make it harder on trans and as i understand she will be off road/highway most of the time? Also maintains lower gearing for around town or hilly back roads, just remember you have to modify drive shafts. Also overdrive unit will not void factory warranty.:naner:
 

VPed

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I would not fear affecting off-road capability much with a re-gear. My truck with the 6.5 TD has 3:73s and I rarely use low range. I wouldn't try to get to 2100 @ 75 though. Be aware that there are breakpoints when changing gearing that causes a need for a different carrier though.
 

teletech

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Gearvendors overdrive for the win, I've had on my 6.9IDI powered ford forever and can't tell you how much I enjoy it.
Not the cheapest solution but you can often find used units and even if the tailshaft adapter is wrong you can buy one of those separately. Yes, it's not the cheapest solution and yes you have to cut your driveshaft but having so many gears to choose from is really nice.
 

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I wouldn't try to get to 2100 @ 75 though. Be aware that there are breakpoints when changing gearing that causes a need for a different carrier though.
Right. I know there's much more to it than my simple arithmetic. But since the M1009 uses 3.08, I thought 3.54 might be safe. Is that not the case?

Thanks for your patience with my noob questions.
 

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I found this M1010 gear ratio topic covered in 2 other threads, so I thought I'd add links for those who might find this thread.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?97733-Dana-44-swap-M1010/page6
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/archive/index.php/t-97321.html

My main question now is 37" tires vs re-geared axles.

I'm thinking the stock tires are 1/2 the weight and 1/3 the cost, and center of gravity is already high enough, so re-gearing the axles makes more sense. I welcome any input from those with experience.
 

Csm Davis

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JPG I love that you are asking the right questions. I would leave the gears in the axles and go for a 700r4 transmission that is built by a national transmission retailer to be used in a 4x4 truck with that diesel engine, they were available stock in the civilian trucks and the aftermarket has fixed all of the early problems. This will get you a warranty that can be used across the country. The 400 can be sold to recover some of the price. I would look at Jasper, B&M, TCI, JEGS, and many more just this could be it's own tread. I would not add a gear vendors it is not great as an alternative and yes I have had one factory installed. The 37s keep popping up because we get them cheap through the military surplus market and they are on the hmmwv wheels which are beadlock and runflat which are a good thing in the middle of nowhere, yes they are heavy but if she has a flat she can slowly continue to go for many miles, it will ruin the tire but better than being stuck somewhere you don't want to be. I think that the 700r4 with the 37s will give you the best of both hwy speeds and off road capabilities. I would probably have the wheels recentered for this application I don't recenter mine because I can swap between all of my different applications. I would do a shackle flip on the rear for the lift keeping the stock springs and a spring replacement on the front and don't go crazy on the lift and suspension modifications this is to get a good ways off road but not a mud bog or rock crawling truck. I would leave the rear Detroit locker alone and add a front e-locker as was pointed out earlier, and remind her it is to help back out not go farther in. Same with the winches I would put one on both ends and probably tucked away in the frame as far as possible with controls in the cab and a plug in controller on both ends mounted high on the body side.
Don't forget to paint the roof silver or white and give her a panel that she can flip over that says help or SOS in orange on a shiny aluminum background just in case. Also don't forget communication gear you can get good high power cellular boosters that might be helpful if she likes her cell phone, or satellite beacons and or phones are getting more affordable. Man I love this build as it is helping me with my own daughters build, not my 1010 but a 1028 for a DD and off roader.
 

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Thanks Jeff.

That's a lot to digest. I'd been looking at retail 37" prices and decided other things were more cost effective. After your post, I've been reading up on milsurp 37" tires.

If I understand correctly, the H1 wheels will work fine on the M1010 rear axle, but require 2" steel spacers or dually hubs or recentered wheels on the front. Recentering is beyond my skills, and buying recentered seems pricey. Is there a disadvantage to running these 2" spacers on the front? Is that enough to allow me to run stock H1 wheels on my M1010? (I understand a lift is required also.)

TH400 plus GearVendor vs 700R4 is another question. I've gotten different recommendations from different people on this. The TH400 plus GearVendor gives a final gear ration of 3.56, and 2422RPM @ 75MPH for a cost of about $3500. The 700R4 gives a final gear ratio of 3.42, and 2330RPM @ 75MPH for a cost of about $2400. Pretty close. The 700R4 has a lower first gear, which is good given the taller tires. I'm told the TH400 is more robust. I don't know which way to go on this one.

Just the TH400 and the 37" tires give me 3105RPM at 75MPH. I'm told that's on the high side for running the 6.2 all day on a long road trip. This truck will make lots of long road trips.

For the winch, I was planning on one she can plug into the receiver hitch when off-roading. When driving through highway salt, it can live inside the box. I'll probably install a front receiver hitch for it, but if she needs a winch I expect her to nearly always be going backwards. The front would probably only be used for pulling someone else out, I hope.

For comms, she has a Delorme that gives her the ability to text from anywhere. The roof panel is a great idea. I hadn't thought of that.

Thanks for your guidance. If your daughter ever takes a road trip to Wyoming, maybe our girls could get together for coffee and to compare rides.
 

Csm Davis

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Thanks Jeff.

That's a lot to digest. I'd been looking at retail 37" prices and decided other things were more cost effective. After your post, I've been reading up on milsurp 37" tires.

If I understand correctly, the H1 wheels will work fine on the M1010 rear axle, but require 2" steel spacers or dually hubs or recentered wheels on the front. Recentering is beyond my skills, and buying recentered seems pricey. Is there a disadvantage to running these 2" spacers on the front? Is that enough to allow me to run stock H1 wheels on my M1010? (I understand a lift is required also.)
Those spacers are good for all 4 places on the truck, on my 1028 I don't need them for the rear but you might need them for the 1010 haven't gotten around to mounting the hmmwv wheels on my 1010 yet but I do need spacers on my 1031/1028 maintenance truck or they rub on the body. There are a lot of places that you can send your hmmwv wheels to get them recentered, I think http://stocktonwheel.com/
Would be my first choice. For the price I would go with the dually hub first, recentered wheels second, spacers last. Using the dually hubs will kill two birds with one stone, you get the space you need and complete rebuild of the axle at that time, saving on labor. The rear axle can also be changed around to get the correct width and rebuilt.

TH400 plus GearVendor vs 700R4 is another question. I've gotten different recommendations from different people on this. The TH400 plus GearVendor gives a final gear ration of 3.56, and 2422RPM @ 75MPH for a cost of about $3500. The 700R4 gives a final gear ratio of 3.42, and 2330RPM @ 75MPH for a cost of about $2400. Pretty close. The 700R4 has a lower first gear, which is good given the taller tires. I'm told the TH400 is more robust. I don't know which way to go on this one.
Just the TH400 and the 37" tires give me 3105RPM at 75MPH. I'm told that's on the high side for running the 6.2 all day on a long road trip. This truck will make lots of long road trips.
For mine I will go with the 700r4 with upgraded internals from the 4l65e, this should take care of any weakness the stock 700r4 had as built. The 700r4 was stock on the civilian 6.2 blazer so if she needs repair a stealership will be looking at a stock type setup and any good transmission shop will feel right at home. The 400 is a good transmission but needs an overdrive which is why they made the 4l80e but I don't want a computer and I have had a GearVendor and won't waste my money again, they have many downsides, cost, increased heating of the 400, length, strength, and the worst in my mind is a limited list of places that can and will work on them. In the end you want a stronger transmission and you can build a stronger 400 but a built 700r4 is stronger than the stock 400 in the truck and gives you better gearing.

For the winch, I was planning on one she can plug into the receiver hitch when off-roading. When driving through highway salt, it can live inside the box. I'll probably install a front receiver hitch for it, but if she needs a winch I expect her to nearly always be going backwards. The front would probably only be used for pulling someone else out, I hope.
Okay so that sounds great for you or me but let's be honest for a second you need a good 9-12,000 lbs winch, we are manly men and would blow out a hernia before we would admit that moving that winch is more than we can do. Now that said I have big, tall, strong, beautiful girls that take after me, I am 6'8" 330 lbs but I am not going to have one of them or me have to move a 200 lbs winch to get unstuck. Instead I am going to have one in front and rear and will teach her to wash and oil the whole truck, they need to get under them for visual inspections weekly anyway. Teach her good maintenance skills now and she will always have a ride.

For comms, she has a Delorme that gives her the ability to text from anywhere. The roof panel is a great idea. I hadn't thought of that.

Thanks for your guidance. If your daughter ever takes a road trip to Wyoming, maybe our girls could get together for coffee and to compare rides.
Sounds good, if you go with the 1010 or even something else post up some pictures and feel free to ask me anything, I will give you my biased opinion every time, no such thing as an unbiased opinion, we all base decisions on our past experiences.
 

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I agree a 200 lb winch is not portable. I was looking at this one, that weighs 80 lbs and pulls 10,000 lbs. 70 lbs is what the Military considers "man portable". I figure mounting the winch on the back can be part of the on-road to off-road transition, along with adjusting the air in the tires and making sure everything is secure. Better to do it on dry, level ground rather than when stuck in goo.

I suppose I could build some sort of protected shelter for the winch in the space formerly occupied by the spare tire. Proper ventilation and protection from salt will be an interesting design challenge.

I'll dig into the "built" 700R4, and follow up on you re-centering recommendation. Thanks.
 
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