M809 Series- Front axle work and what to expect

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Ajax MD

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It has been freezing tonight, about 17 F in Dan's workshop. So we put the brake drum in the kitchen in front of the wood stove, the only really heated room in the workshop. It will stay there today and throughout the night. Will not do much, but it will help a bit. The seal goes into the freezer and tomorrow morning we will try to assemble it.
Just to provide a more complete response to what I said earlier- I froze my seals and I used @Brutacus' method using the hub flange to carefully drive it in. By the time the seal was installed, it was warm and pliable enough to reassemble everything.
 

77 AMG

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Anybody know, or, be willing to share, what size sockets are needed to remove/install the bearing retainer nuts? I just wasted around $30 on a too large sized socket. (4 7/8 ths). Greatly appreciate it. BTW, *this* is what I found when I popped the flange off. Explains the bad shake in the front end.... NO grease in that bearing, at all!
 

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Anybody know, or, be willing to share, what size sockets are needed to remove/install the bearing retainer nuts? I just wasted around $30 on a too large sized socket. (4 7/8 ths). Greatly appreciate it. BTW, *this* is what I found when I popped the flange off. Explains the bad shake in the front end.... NO grease in that bearing, at all!
Should be 4 3/8 for the outer and your 4 7/8 for the inner
 

Floridianson

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Brutacus pretty cool you found the front drive flange makes a good seal installer. As you said it does not hit the rubber and hits the metal edge. You were right and that is the main thing as the seal installers in the other post would not work as it would be crushing / pushing on the rubber seal. I had a couple of seal installers from back in the early 1980's when I had my trucking company. For me I just used one of the ones I had that fit tight on the rubber side and cut out the metal ring and tacked it together so I am pushing on metal. Just for the other OP's here is some pics of how some seal tools would hit the rubber. Some pics of seals that the has no protruding rubber lip and one from the LMTV that would work with the store bought seal installing tool. Then again my make shift tool the does not let the tool hit /push on the rubber seal. Maybe you need to start making a 5 ton seal installer tool from some old drive flanges and weld a handle on it.
 

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Brutacus

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Brutacus pretty cool you found the front drive flange makes a good seal installer. As you said it does not hit the rubber and hits the metal edge. You were right and that is the main thing as the seal installers in the other post would not work as it would be crushing / pushing on the rubber seal. I had a couple of seal installers from back in the early 1980's when I had my trucking company. For me I just used one of the ones I had that fit tight on the rubber side and cut out the metal ring and tacked it together so I am pushing on metal. Just for the other OP's here is some pics of how some seal tools would hit the rubber. Some pics of seals that the has no protruding rubber lip and one from the LMTV that would work with the store bought seal installing tool. Then again my make shift tool the does not let the tool hit /push on the rubber seal. Maybe you need to start making a 5 ton seal installer tool from some old drive flanges and weld a handle on it.

I did think about it using some old drive flanges to make some seal setting tools, but the only two I have access to are the ones on my truck. I use those to run my front axle. I thought about finding some flanges and welding a large/rod shaft down into the splines so it sticks out of the top use as the handle/striking target. That would make for heavy sitting tool. Until that day comes I'll just pass on the advice of using the drive flange with a plate of metal over the pressed in plug.
 

77 AMG

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True, oddly enough. I really should have pulled that flange off before I ordered the one socket, would have saved my self some time and aggrivation. Live and learn, yeah?
 

Robo McDuff

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I was too quick with stating that everything looked good actually. The brake cylinder definitely had a problem and was leaking.

Also, the hub was not as clean as I thought, I just did not look good.
IMG_8688_resize.JPG

IMG_8691_resize.JPG

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Everything is clean now. Cleaned the brake shoe surfaces with grease remover, cleaned out and degreased the hub itself completely and sanded down the rust etc etc.

The grease gun I had somehow did not work, so I tried several ways to push a little less than 1/2 lb grease into the bearing, using my hands and some other tricks, in the end pushing the bearing with a lot of grease on the outside in its hub housing, turn it around several times, then take it out, fill it up again and repeat 2 times. Should be full by now I hope.

Hopefully tomorrow we can get the seal in, and then reassemble the hub and the rest of the brake system.
 

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Ajax MD

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I re-packed my bearings completely by hand. It's not a crime. :)

You just gotta keep grabbing handfuls and pushing it in, working your way around. You can easily get it as full as any bearing packing tool, it's just messier and a little more wasteful.
 

Jakelc15

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I re-packed my bearings completely by hand. It's not a crime. :)

You just gotta keep grabbing handfuls and pushing it in, working your way around. You can easily get it as full as any bearing packing tool, it's just messier and a little more wasteful.
I haven't tried it but I was told to put the bearing in a gallon freezer bag with a gob of grease and pack it. Keeps the mess to a minimum and packs faster.
I was going to try it when I replace my leaky axle seal
 

Ajax MD

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I haven't tried it but I was told to put the bearing in a gallon freezer bag with a gob of grease and pack it. Keeps the mess to a minimum and packs faster.
I was going to try it when I replace my leaky axle seal
I always seem to miss the easy, obvious solutions.
 

Robo McDuff

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I haven't tried it but I was told to put the bearing in a gallon freezer bag with a gob of grease and pack it. Keeps the mess to a minimum and packs faster.
I was going to try it when I replace my leaky axle seal

Not sure how putting the bearing in a freezer back will help pack it apart from keeping the mess localized. I had the bearing also laying on a piece of plastic bag and used hands and a thin screwdriver to push the grease in between the rollers. than, when everything looked full, I used the air blower (5 bar, narrow snout), to softly blow the grease in and through. If it comes out on the other site, its ok and you are sure that a lot stayed on the bearing walls. Off course, after doing that you should try push in some more with your hands to replace the blown-out grease. I like to make things complicated when easy is possible also.

Anyway, the freezing trick - putting the seal overnight in the freezer - worked a treat. One of the special stamp forging hammers fits perfect on the drive flange, two blows with a second hammer and in it was alsmost perfect. I later used a rectangle piece of metal and a lighter hammer to get the seal in evenly, it now sits about 1 or 2 mm (thickness of a match) above the axle tube



IMG_8745_resize.JPG IMG_8747_resize.JPG

Ready for install tomorrow

IMG_8752_resize.JPG IMG_8750_resize.JPG
 
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Brutacus

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Not sure how putting the bearing in a freezer back will help pack it apart from keeping the mess localized. I had the bearing also laying on a piece of plastic bag and used hands and a thin screwdriver to push the grease in between the rollers. than, when everything looked full, I used the air blower (5 bar, narrow snout), to softly blow the grease in and through. If it comes out on the other site, its ok and you are sure that a lot stayed on the bearing walls. Off course, after doing that you should try push in some more with your hands to replace the blown-out grease. I like to make things complicated when easy is possible also.

Anyway, the freezing trick worked a treat. One of the special stamp forging hammers fits perfect on the drive flange, two blows with the second hammer and in it was. I later used a rectangle piece of metal and a lighter hammer to get the seal in evenly, it now sits about 1 or 2 mm (thickness of a match) above the axle tube



View attachment 793684 View attachment 793685

Ready for install tomorrow

View attachment 793687 View attachment 793686
[/QUOTE


It's always nice when things can go in easy with one or two taps. I'm glad the advice made the task easier.
 

Floridianson

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Freezer bag not freezer they are thicker I believe and won't rip getting that nasty grease on you hands. Myself I like the way the grease makes my hands smell and oh so soft.
 

Robo McDuff

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I use thick heavy duty long rubber gloves for grease, thin gloves for most other things. And an old bed sheet to get the grease off everything beefore, during and afterwards.

Grease: I cleaned and packed both bearings in nice new grease.


Now I see that the splined part of the axle just inside the axle tube also has old grease on it. I thought the axle runs in the oil from the differential?

IMG_8751c.jpg

Should I put new grease on here as well? And if so, what is the risk of the old and the new grease not mixing well? I use Q8 Rubens WB-B1 lithium Complex grease.
 

Floridianson

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Yea you should have cleaned out the inside of the spindle tube and put grease in side to cover the spindle axle bushing
 

Ajax MD

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I use thick heavy duty long rubber gloves for grease, thin gloves for most other things. And an old bed sheet to get the grease off everything beefore, during and afterwards.

Grease: I cleaned and packed both bearings in nice new grease.


Now I see that the splined part of the axle just inside the axle tube also has old grease on it. I thought the axle runs in the oil from the differential?

View attachment 793699

Should I put new grease on here as well? And if so, what is the risk of the old and the new grease not mixing well? I use Q8 Rubens WB-B1 lithium Complex grease.
NO, the axle is isolated from the differential oil in pre-939 series trucks by seals. You pack the knuckle full of grease to lubricate the axle CV joint.
 

Floridianson

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Yea I would put grease in the knuckle and pack it around the CV joint if you have the old Timken ball and seat type of axle / CV joint. I do not put grease in the knuckle if there is the newer cross type universal joint. But know matter what axle you have before you put the spindle on the knuckle you should have cleaned it out and put in a good bit of new grease inside the spindle around the bushing area. You know when you have enough when you install the spindle over the axle and on the knuckle plus you get a good glob come out the end of the spindle and axle tip. I am sorry I did not say something before but yea. Last time I said something to a member he removed the spindle and corrected it after he already installed it.
 
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Robo McDuff

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OK, I did NOT touch the axle or the knuckle, only took of the hub, repacked the bearings and installed a new seal. So should I do anything with that axle or just leave it as is for the moment. No time to start do the knuckle and boot stuff, the truck has to move. Also, it looks like the previous owner (from 2000 to 2010, driving in total 3000 miles) did several of those things already, last time I drove, most things apart from steering (repaired) and brakes (almost done) worked good.
 
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