May be looking at another M38a1 - need assistance

[jeeplvr247]

Well it appears that my patience may finally have paid off. Based on the advise I got here I avoided the cheaper M38a1 with lots of rust and missing parts and may have found a good one.
Here are the details:
It reads 54,000 miles, has a new civilian soft top and decent tires. The body looks really good but it has been repainted so I can not be sure if something is hiding. The seller says the only rust are a few "pinholes" in the passenger side floorboard. It is missing the spare tire, blackout lights, and tailgate. I cannot tell 100% because the top is up but it looks like it may have a roll bar. Also the carburetor has been replaced. Everything else appears to be original.

One thing that concerns me is that he said the tailgate is missing but from what I can find M38a1s don't have tailgates. I dont think it is a civilian tub because it has the indent in front of the passenger door. Did any of the M38a1s have tailgates?

I am waiting on some pictures of it because the ad only had one. The seller has it priced at $3500 and I need to know whether or not this is a fair deal.

How hard are blackout lights come by?

As always, thanks for any help.

 

[FrankUSMC]

M38A1s did not have tailgates. Most have had tailgates cut into them after they were surplused out....but! if you look under the rear part of the body, is there an overload springs in place on the axles, then it could have been cut out by the military for the 106 RR mount.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

 

[wilfreeman]

Also, it's fairly easy to tell about body damage - you can see the back side of all the body panels, so just carefully inspect the inside of the tub for dents and rust holes coming from the outside - you will be able to see any major repair. Also check under the wheel wells for rear corner and rear panel damage. Check inside the toolbox very well , thats a good place for rust. Check the underside of the floor including hat channels - they are usually rusted. All the little things that people take off to civilianize an 'A1 will cost big bucks if you are wanting to go back original - I made the same mistake on mine. I'm not trying to near you up on it, just trying to help somebody else learn from my mistakes! sounds close on price for a good CJ5 - high for a modified 'a1, and DEFINITELY high for a resto (unless he has everything he took off of it).

 

[mutt1966]

It could be missing a tailgate because it looks like there should of been one there the Recoiless Rifle ones were open across the back. Scott O&O

 

[jeeplvr247]

Thanks for the input. He said the only rust are the pinholes in the floor by the tool box. How much does the fact that it is a "civilianized" A1 affect the value? I know my CJ prices pretty well so I think I will get it if I think that it is a fair price for a CJ5 in similar condition and then slowly try to re-militarize it.

 

[FrankUSMC]

Alot, now it just a farm jeep. Very good chance it has also been converted to 12 volts.
I picked one last year with a tail gate cut into it for $1500. Yours has a better body, this one ran, and was still 24 volts. The tail gate was cut out but I am mounting a 106 on it so that did not matter.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

 

[wilfreeman]

Yeah, Frank's right. There are really 3 seperate categories for purchasing here 1)early civilian (CJ), 2)military (M38a1), and 3) runaround or farm or mudding jeep (don't care what it is). 1 and 2 will price out about the same - around $1500 for a buildable jeep worth saving, and up to around $12,000 or more depending on rarity or options. #3 could go from, say, $500 to $4500. It's all depending on what you want to invest in money and sweat (equity). If it was me, I would look for a more complete military one if that was to be my final goal - it will cost waay more than it's worth to individually buy all of those little bits and pieces - trust me, I KNOW! Example: correct military wiring - $575, plus all the little connectors and clips that weren't included. $65 for a 24v fuel sending unit, $75 generator, $75 regulator, etc, etc. It adds up real quick. You can probably find one in the same price range that is somewhat complete and driveable - or close to being driveable -that would be a better starting point for a military restoration.

 

[FrankUSMC]

Matt
Does a M38A1 generator cost $75? I am asking because I have not priced one, do not laugh but, sence the 1970s. Then it was over $250 for a 24 volt generator from Sears.
I still have the Sears catalog from 1977, I would go to Columbia, SC that is where the Sears store was for me. I have been very lucky that every jeep I have ever got the generators were good.
I would show this catalog to guys to show them why there jeeps was converted to 12 volts. If your generator went out on a 24 volt jeep it was cheaper to replace everything with 12 than to buy a new 24 volt generator.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

 

[wilfreeman]

They vary - I've seen them on epay as low as $25 and a high as $350 (I'm sure he didnt sell it though). I was just throwing out a guesstimate on some of the prices - I paid $375 for my wiring 12yrs ago - $500 to $575 is the current price on that for sure. The fuel sender at $65 it's current price also - because I need one. I have bought 2 parts jeeps for $300/ea over the years to get most of the parts (big and small) to restore my jeep. That is an idea if the jeep you are looking at is the one for you. A good body does make a great starting point - if you can find a fairly complete one with a bad body - CHEAP! - to complete it.

 

[FrankUSMC]

Matt
You are right on the body, you are also dead on with the parts jeeps. I tell new collectors all the time, a parts truck can pay for itself the first time you need a part.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

 

[wilfreeman]

Definitely - my first one paid for itself with its radiator, but wish I would have never sold it now! Also, a good gas tank is GOLD

 

[jeeplvr247]

Well the good news is that it is still the 24v system(the seller said something about the headlights being 12v but i think that is how it is supposed to be). Also the fuel tank is in good shape and the seller says that it only has the small bit of rust in the tool box. I am still waiting on more picture but it looks ok. I have seen NOS back panels for the A1 online so I may go with one of those to solve the tailgate problems. In my research I have seen quite a few electrical issues, is there anything i should look for when i check it out?

 

[wilfreeman]

Well in that case you'll be ok - replacing the 24v system would be a major expense without a parts jeep. You might be alright buying it. The has tank is another definite plus - I had a nightmare when I put an Omix ada one in mine ( you can read that story on my blog if you want - the link is in my signature - probably the second out third page). I had to replace my rear panel and rear floor (and front floor). DO NOT BUY OMIX ADA FLOOR SND REAR PANELS - trust me on this! You can see pictures of that fiasco in my photos on the willysmjeeps site.

 

[jeeplvr247]

Ok the pictures are finally in.

I am on the fence here. I can see that the blackouts are gone, the fuel cap is wrong, roll bar and top should not be there, and it looks like something very strange is going on with the back. My question is whether or not this looks like a good start for a restoration or if it is more suited to live out its days as a farm truck. Also if there is anything I did not notice feel free to point it out.

 

[BBELL]

The body looks nice if its not full of bondo. It looks like to me it has a cj fuel tank in it. It seems to be a nice jeep and good project.

 

[AMGeneral]

Looks like it has the wrong carb,wrong fuel tank, and looks as if the rear body support crossmember has been cut off as well.

something doesn't look right with the rear body as well.

 

[jeeplvr247]

I am thinking that at one point someone cut in a tailgate and then someone else reversed it. I am trying to tabulate the cost of getting this back to original and the number is getting quite large.

 

[wilfreeman]

Wiring harness is custom too. It's still 24v though. Soo, you're looking at a rear panel, black out lights front and rear, gas tank, carb, fuel pump(?), wiring, interior and a top. Plus whatever is hiding. Yeah, it adds up quick! Of course, you could always keep the carb for now, tape up the harness and make additions if need be, put a rear panel in it, paint it green and drive it! You wouldn't have a whole lot in the resto that way, and could do stuff as the money becomes available.

 

[wilfreeman]

Or throw out about $4,000 + and do it right

 

[jeeplvr247]

Before I got the pictures I thought the gas tank and wiring harness were original so now I am not sure if I should pull the trigger on this one or not.