MEP-016D load test failure.....

[strycnine]

I have a MEP-16D that dies right on down after I apply a 3350watt load to it. I cleaned the tank and changed the fuel filter before testing it. Does this sound like fuel issue?

I also have another MEP-016D that will hold this load fine. It shows around 80% load on the meter.



I'm using a 1500watt space heater and a 1850watt hair dryer.......it's all I got

 

[derf]

Could be regulator. Swap the two VRs and see?
Diode in the head, maybe? The VR feeds DC to the head to excite the field. The field induces AC into the rotor which is then rectified to DC to make the big part of the rotor a spinning electromagnet.
Does it immediately recover if you remove the load or part of the load?
On one hand if you get 3600 RPM with no load then the fuel system seems OK.
On the other hand if you get good power under 3300W then the electrical systems seems OK.
If you feel it is fuel issue then you might be on track. What makes you suspect fuel?

Also, 3000W is 2/3 of 4500W. You might have 2/3 of your output windings good, maybe? 4500W is a good general max rating for the 016, IMO.
Maybe switch it to 3 phase mode and measure each phase? Also, you should be able to check the windings at rest with a meter.

I'm not expert but I'm learning about these gens all the time. Whatever you find out, please post here. I'll gladly buy your 016D if the gen head is bad and the price is fair.

 

[strycnine]

Thanks for the info derf. I will try that when I get time.

It recovers back to normal after I reduce the load. It seems to run like the other as far as the engine goes.

The reason I suspect the fuel system is because the other generator(good) had gunk in the fuel tank valve and inj pump. I cleaned it all out before I started it up. The one I didn't clean is the one acting up. I know I should've cleaned it all out, but...........I was trying to .........this may be user error

 

[ETN550]

Thanks for the info derf. I will try that when I get time.

It recovers back to normal after I reduce the load. It seems to run like the other as far as the engine goes.

The reason I suspect the fuel system is because the other generator(good) had gunk in the fuel tank valve and inj pump. I cleaned it all out before I started it up. The one I didn't clean is the one acting up. I know I should've cleaned it all out, but...........I was trying to .........this may be user error

I believe if it was an electrical problem the engine would not drop rpm.

If the engine is producing black smoke when loaded then it is either a dirty air filter or obstruction in the intake (found a shop rag in one once!) or injection timing (unlikely since the pump is shimmed and does not change timing unless someone assembles it wrong) or an injector out of whack.

Try backing out the "smoke" screw. This is the bolt below the fuel lever mechanism that has the plunger coming out of the center of it. adjust it while running. Backing it out will allow more fuel quicker to regain speed after a load application. If it is running and not touching the plunger then someone has already tried that adjustment. In that case proceed to the next step.

Pull out the manual and verify that the governor spring behind the fuel shutdown and run levers is set to the correct position for a gen application. One end of the spring is in slots or holes marked a, b, c and the other end is in holes 1, 2, 3. there is a table in the manual that tells what the setting is. For example L70 generator 60hz is B2. (just an example, I don't have the book in front of me). They have settings for 50hz so if it is in the wrong position it can mess it up at 60 hz.

While you are looking at the governor spring make sure there is not excess CARC paint on it keeping it from working freely.

Of course the max speed screw can be adjusted if you are not at 60 hz but that screw will not have anything to do with load acceptance.

The above items are the only adjustments available.

But I have one other trick if your getting improvements by adjusting the plunger screw and have run out of plunger travel. If you have backed out the plunger screw and it is not touching the governor lever when the machine is running then manually push the lever into the plunger while it is running and loaded. If it immeadiately picks up speed, and I bet it will, then continue as follows: Pull the governor spring off and measure the center distance with the spring relaxed with some dial calipers. Use needle nose pliers and rotate one end of the spring closed some more so the new center distance is about 0.060" shorter than the original dimension. It does not take very much of a twist at all to make 0.060" difference so be careful. 0.060" will make a world of difference when running and get it back on the plunger bolt for fine adjustment. I do this adjustment from time to time to correct a tired spring. You could buy a new spring. I do not like leaving the engine set with the fuel lever in the run position as it keeps the spring stretched all the time. Also, forcing the lever further may stretch the spring. But the spring may get tired or if there is light corrosion on it it may be a little tired. No big deal to adjust it. The engine is very sensitive to the spring charactoristic as it is the fine sensitivity that allows the engine to maintain precise speed control needed for a gen application.

Now if you are getting black smoke consider having the injector tested and the tip replaced. A diesel shop can do it for about $80.00 including new tip, cleaning the body, reset the opening pressure and putting new gun black on the exterior. Just like new.

I don't think there is anything else it could be. PS. I use the Kill-A-Watt meter to check the 120vac loads and a lot of appliances test less than their nameplate. My 1850 hair dryer is 1630 for example.

Good luck let us know what you find after tinkering some more.

Doug

 

[derf]

I thought a bad winding could possibly bog down a generator.
Don't they often slow RPMs when max load is exceeded?
Or, is that something that might happen to a brush type gen heads?

Either way I'm learning. I haven't had to go into the Yanmars beyond cleaning the IP and I haven't loaded my 016D up to full potential, yet, either.

 

[ETN550]

I thought a bad winding could possibly bog down a generator.
Don't they often slow RPMs when max load is exceeded?
Or, is that something that might happen to a brush type gen heads?

Either way I'm learning. I haven't had to go into the Yanmars beyond cleaning the IP and I haven't loaded my 016D up to full potential, yet, either.

Not sure about that you may be right there. But that 016D engine is rated for 6.7HP or 5.0kw. So if the engine was pushing 5.0kw and the gen is putting out around 3kw then 2.0 kw is being absorbed internally and the magic smoke will start to appear, right? I suppose it is possible that the fan cooling on the gen end could get rid of the extra 2.0kw so what you say would be possible. I do notice they have very very good airflow on the gen end.

The quickest thing to do is to manually push on the gov lever when it is running loaded to see if the plunger is either at bottom and already limiting travel or if it truely cannot pick up speed when the lever is actually moved.

Do you have a 016B also? If you do and ever get the chance to adjust the max fuel per spec you will see how it can fall off and die when on the edge. The 016D simply does not have the extra adjustments that the 016B has. The procedure for adjusting the 016B takes it to the edge where it drops off on a very fine line where it barely takes full load. And then the final step is to crank the screw an 1/8 of a turn more to keep it behind the edge and give it some overload ability. Interesting procedure, actually.

 

[derf]

I've had several 701As or 016Bs. I much prefer the Yanmars and their pull ropes. I haven't had to tune the Yanmars, yet, though.
I have a 016D with less than 200 hours and a 016E with less than 10 hours that I'm parting to make better use of the L100. The 016E was actually a 701 but was missing the cover on the back end.

 

[ETN550]

For reference, the Three 016Ds I finished up on recently all carried a 4000w heater just fine with no load issues or smoke. My heater is nameplated for 3000 watts at 208 VAC single phase and 4000 watts at 240 VAC single phase. I can hit 75% and 100% pretty accurately by adjusting the voltage. I have also used the Kill-A-Watt to calibrate other resistive loads separately so when I add them on the unit I can compare the load meter to my known loads. The load meters seem to be pretty close most of the time. I have an 016E righ now that reads load a little high.

Had a problem tonight with the E on its first start. It has some burnt ground wires on it. And the main bare braided wire from the engine base to the frame was burnt in half. I replaced it and had the unit on load at 4kw for about 45 min to burn the carc off of the exhaust system and about 2 minutes into cool down it shutdown by popping the 7.5A 12VDC breaker?? I have no idea what is going on. I guess I'l start by putting my ammeter in line with the breaker to see what it is getting for current. Funny it tripped on cool down, not loaded.

 

[ETN550]

I've had several 701As or 016Bs. I much prefer the Yanmars and their pull ropes. I haven't had to tune the Yanmars, yet, though.
I have a 016D with less than 200 hours and a 016E with less than 10 hours that I'm parting to make better use of the L100. The 016E was actually a 701 but was missing the cover on the back end.

I'm going to do a project that involves putting a 3kw 4 pole head on an L100. I have researched the L100 power curve and also looked at the 1800rpm 3kw DJA. The DJA and L100 are exactly the same 5.75 hp at 1800 rpm. DJA is 490cc and tops out at 7.5hp at 2400 and the L100 is 406cc and tops out at 10hp @ 3600rpm or just under 10. Coincidently, the L70 on the 016D is only a little more at 6.75 hp at 3600 rpm and it easily makes 4kw all day with no strain.

Potential issues are reduced fan cooling speed and the governor will need to be made to work, possible having to add to the internal governor weights to obtain the correct balance of position, fuel, governor force and spring.

I have some very nice fiberglass military containers used for aircraft APU storage and transport that I am going to use for a sound enclosure with proper vents and baffles for the engine and gen. My overall goal is a small load unit that can run for a long time and be easy on the ears. I might canabalize my E for all of the great features like remote fuel and controls.

I like the rope pull too and the ability to do a "black start". One of the nice things about a diesel is that it does not fundementally need electricity to run.

If the direct drive 1800 rpm is too much or too slow for the L100 then I will either go to belt drive and increase to around 2400rpm (which is best fuel economy on the L100, 7.5% better than 3600) or try adapting the big 603cc 016B engine. But that engine has no stub shaft at the drive end. Expensive to make one.

The E seems quieter than the B too.

 

[derf]

Yes.
I wouldn't inhale any form of CARC. I don't think the military has the same safety standards as the rest of the government and CARC is mean stuff.

E vs B sound may be due to frequencies. Some frequencies are "nicer" than others and are perceived as being quieter. In general, lower tones are somewhat more tolerable. A 90dB lawnmower doesn't seem as annoying as a 90dB weedeater.

I've thought about small 1800RPM sets but I think there is a barrier somewhere below 10HP that makes them impractical. It may have to do with the ability to adjust to loads. The Listeroids are good but have huge flywheels.
I would be interested in your results, though. Some sort of EFI that varies the fuel delivery with load might be worth pursuing, too.

 

[strycnine]

I believe if it was an electrical problem the engine would not drop rpm.

If the engine is producing black smoke when loaded then it is either a dirty air filter or obstruction in the intake (found a shop rag in one once!) or injection timing (unlikely since the pump is shimmed and does not change timing unless someone assembles it wrong) or an injector out of whack.

Try backing out the "smoke" screw. This is the bolt below the fuel lever mechanism that has the plunger coming out of the center of it. adjust it while running. Backing it out will allow more fuel quicker to regain speed after a load application. If it is running and not touching the plunger then someone has already tried that adjustment. In that case proceed to the next step.

Pull out the manual and verify that the governor spring behind the fuel shutdown and run levers is set to the correct position for a gen application. One end of the spring is in slots or holes marked a, b, c and the other end is in holes 1, 2, 3. there is a table in the manual that tells what the setting is. For example L70 generator 60hz is B2. (just an example, I don't have the book in front of me). They have settings for 50hz so if it is in the wrong position it can mess it up at 60 hz.

While you are looking at the governor spring make sure there is not excess CARC paint on it keeping it from working freely.

Of course the max speed screw can be adjusted if you are not at 60 hz but that screw will not have anything to do with load acceptance.

The above items are the only adjustments available.

But I have one other trick if your getting improvements by adjusting the plunger screw and have run out of plunger travel. If you have backed out the plunger screw and it is not touching the governor lever when the machine is running then manually push the lever into the plunger while it is running and loaded. If it immeadiately picks up speed, and I bet it will, then continue as follows: Pull the governor spring off and measure the center distance with the spring relaxed with some dial calipers. Use needle nose pliers and rotate one end of the spring closed some more so the new center distance is about 0.060" shorter than the original dimension. It does not take very much of a twist at all to make 0.060" difference so be careful. 0.060" will make a world of difference when running and get it back on the plunger bolt for fine adjustment. I do this adjustment from time to time to correct a tired spring. You could buy a new spring. I do not like leaving the engine set with the fuel lever in the run position as it keeps the spring stretched all the time. Also, forcing the lever further may stretch the spring. But the spring may get tired or if there is light corrosion on it it may be a little tired. No big deal to adjust it. The engine is very sensitive to the spring charactoristic as it is the fine sensitivity that allows the engine to maintain precise speed control needed for a gen application.

Now if you are getting black smoke consider having the injector tested and the tip replaced. A diesel shop can do it for about $80.00 including new tip, cleaning the body, reset the opening pressure and putting new gun black on the exterior. Just like new.

I don't think there is anything else it could be. PS. I use the Kill-A-Watt meter to check the 120vac loads and a lot of appliances test less than their nameplate. My 1850 hair dryer is 1630 for example.

Good luck let us know what you find after tinkering some more.

Doug

Doug,

I will check that out when I get back home. Thanks for the info.

 

[strycnine]

The manual says it's position 2B. I will check it out when I get home.

 

[strycnine]

Thanks for all the help!

It was the spring........was in the wrong spot. I have it running at 62.5 Hz no-load and 60.1 loaded to 65%.

I need to add a few more watts to see what she will do
Jack

 

[ETN550]

Thanks for all the help!

It was the spring........was in the wrong spot. I have it running at 62.5 Hz no-load and 60.1 loaded to 65%.

I need to add a few more watts to see what she will do
Jack

Excellent!

 

[derf]

Excellent!

LOL "Excellent" is the exact word that came to mind when I read his post, too.

 

[strycnine]

Also need to pick up a kilowatt meter.

Where did yall get them? Lowes?

 

[steelypip]

I got mine mail order, but they're available from some local vendors, depending on your definition of 'local.' Google shopping says that Sam's or Radio Shack may stock them. It's the second most useful electrical measuring tool I have after my Fluke DMM.

 

[strycnine]

I picked one up today at Lowes for 28 bux.