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Mep 803 with problems shutting down

Haoleb

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Hang in there! you'll figure out what the heck is wrong with it and be better for it because of how familiar you will be with the way it works. And chances are find some small things that needed fixing anyway in the process. End result. You'll have a better generator than one that just ran from the get go.

At least... That's usually how I look at it!
 

Guyfang

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Triton,

Anytime you turn on the S-7 Battle Short, you bypass most of the safety features on the gen set. So yes, you can force the K-1 output contactor to close. BUT, you also leave yourself in the position of destroying something.

I once went to a unit that could not get a gen set, (MEP-006) to put power out. Short Circuit idiot light came on. No power. They ASSUMED, this is the key word here, and will almost always get you into trouble, assumed that the short circuit relay was bad. They ordered one, but the ship to receive time was two weeks. That's too long, so they jumped the relay by flipping up S-7. Everyone was dismayed when the wire harness started to smoke. Didn't take long! So use the S-7 with caution. Its a wonderful troubleshooting tool, and in battle, I would certainly use it when push came to shove.

If you look at your wire schematic, you will find the S-1 circuit schedule. It will tell you which pins should be hot when the switch is in which position. And as you found out, the switch is in order. So now you need to start looking between L5 Fuel solenoid, and the S-1. Work from the L5 backwards. In the manuals section of SS, you will find a color coded schematic. Use it, if this kind of thing is new to you. We haven't any idea how much you know about electrical troubleshooting. Frankly, I have almost 40 years experience, and still use the color coded schematic. Its simply easier. This sounds like you have a stuck relay. I once saw a gen set that wouldn't work right, and when I pulled the relays out of the sockets, found one of the wire clips that hold in the relays, (something I feel is unnecessary) had become trapped between the relay base, and the socket. Shorted out to pins and that was the whole problem. Never know, so give it a look see. You can also change the position of the relays. see if you get a different fault. Then you can find the bad relay easy. The "relay" on the left side of the control panel, is not a relay. Its a switch. Different thing altogether. So dont mix it up!
 

Triton

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Thanks Guy Fang, I don't have much electrical experience but I can follow directions. This A.M I changed the switch with a known good one, no change. I will inspect the other relays. Not to sound dumb but I can't find the SS of the manuals section for the color schematic, maybe I don't have that can you be more specific as to what that is? I'm learning to read the schematics but it's slow going, thanks for the help!
 

zarathustra

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You have got several things working (against you) all at once. If it was me I would forget about generating electricity and work on the shutoff problem. If the emergency shutoff switch does not shut off the system, then that is where I'd start. But before I did that I would do one other test first... I would move the dead crank switch to the center position and see if that disables the fuel solenoid and shuts it down. I'd keep that piece of information in my mind and then begin finding out why the emergency shutoff does not shut it down. At first glance I'd suspect mis-wiring, but if it worked -- started and stopped properly when you bought it then that would indicate the wiring was OK.

That emergency switch should shut the engine down RIGHT NOW. It controls a relay, if that relay is stuck closed that would simulate the switch not having any effect.
 

Triton

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I was able to move the relays around this morning and I could see them working, so I don't think the relays are the problem. I agree I need to fix the shut down problem first, I got the colored wiring diagram today so I'm going to enlarge it and keep it readily available. I noticed that when I pull the connector to shut the unit down it is fully closed when I go to restart, when I hit the run switch it pulls back and the engine starts and the unit runs fine. Before I got this unit I saw it operating running and producing power, a month later it stopped producing power but the previous owner said nothing about it not shutting down.
 

zarathustra

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The relay I was speaking of is mounted behind the main control box. There are three relays back there. The contactor, engine fault and glow plug relays.

That red button shuts down or enables the engine fault relay if I remember correctly.

I've found that I can never solve two problems at once in a complex system, so I choose the one I think is most important to solve first. To me, not being able to shut it off in an emergency is more important than generating electricity.

I think the dead crank switch may help point you in the right direction whether it shuts the unit down or it doesn't. I'd bet that the dead crank will shut it down, cause it'll shut off the fuel pump. Now, much of the rest of the unit might still have power when it shouldn't, but at least the engine will be off.
 

Triton

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Got a chance to check the dead crank switch, flipped it to the middle position and it did not shut down the motor. with the engine off it will crank the motor. I also noticed that pushing the ground fault interrupt test button does nothing. I took the top lid off to look behind the wall, I didn't see any relays. Zarathrustra were you talking about the S14, K12, K15, K16, K19, K20 relays? Those all seem to be working
 

Triton

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I checked that breaker switch out but I can't get it to reset or even get it to move. Not sure if it is stuck or if it is able to reset if it trips
 

Guyfang

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If you can not get the GFI to reset, or even move the reset button, then in all probability, its broke. The old style also had an in line fuse, but your most likely, is a newer type. But in any case, if the reset doesnt move, its broke.
 

Daybreak

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Howdy,
Remember, the GFI receptacle does not reset without power.
 

Triton

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Houston, Texas
The test button on the ground fault circuit interrupter on the front of the panel does not trip when I hit test so the reset button doesn't do anything. I was looking inside behind the switch and there is a small button there that does not move.
Did some more testing this am, I rechecked the operation of the S-1 master switch, so I disconnected the starter solenoid so the unit wouldn't start, while checking the switch I flipped the switch to run, the fuel pump came on the solenoid went back just like it should, then I turned the unit off and the fuel pump and solenoid shut off, this hasn't been working. I checked this twice with the same results. So with the solenoid for the starter connected the unit won't shut off, disconnected and it does. Any ideas about what's going on?
 

Triton

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I don't even know which wire to start with, plus they are all bundled so tight together I can't even read the numbers on the wires
 

Guyfang

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Trition,

You just need the schematic. As long as you know the plug and pin numbers, you do not have to see the wire numbers.

When you say you disconnected the starter solenoid, just what did you do? Did you disconnect all the wires to L-4 Start solenoid, (mounted on the starter)? Or just some?

K-16 controls the "pull" function of the L-5 solenoid, (fuel shut off solenoid). That works. The "hold" function seems to also work. BUT what doesn't work is when the "Hold" function is told to stop holding. The first thing that comes to mind looking at the schematic is that CR5 diode. I think it might be in place to prevent the hold function from having another path to ground. CR-5 is mounted on TB-4, between pins 10 and 11. Look at the schematic to see if its mounted in the right direction, and then remove it to test.
 

Triton

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I'll check the CR5 diode, I see what you mean about the wiring numbers. On the starter solenoid I removed just the white wire on the bottom of the starter solenoid, I didn't remove the battery cables or the white wire on top of the solenoid.
 

Triton

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Location
Houston, Texas
I really hate to sound dumb but I'm learning, where in the crap is TB-4 located. As I find this stuff I'm writing it down for next time!
Thanks
 
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