MEP-803A Fuel Gauge Pinned at about 95 Hours on the Clock

[Mweiss]

I was in the hospital with stomach cancer when my wife did a video call as I guided her to start the genset and charge the battery bank on a rainy day. She showed me the panel and I knew something wasn't right seeing the fuel gauge not in its customary scale reading. When I got home from the hospital and surgery, I took this picture. A few days later, I opened the panel and measured across the meter terminals. When the start switch is in the fuel pump position, I read 5 volts across this meter, which seems way too high. Most meters are 50mV FS and under. So something happened with the circuit that drives the meter.
When I Google the problem, it's always the opposite--fuel needle pinned to the left. My case seems unusual.

We've been having constant rain and thunderstorms all month, so the generator got at least weekly and sometimes twice weekly use and I hit the 100 hour mark this week and did the oil change. New Wix filter and Shell Rotella Diesel synthetic oil, per recommendations I found elsewhere on the forum. I unscrewed the plug and opened the valve down below. Expected it to pour out like a faucet, but instead, it slowly dribbled out. Took over an hour to drain. Would have taken two hours, but that I found that if I remove the old oil filter and dead crank it a few seconds, another quart would come out very rapidly from the oil filter port. I got two quarts out that way. But wondering why draining oil from these units is so slow? Instead of going into the pan I put under the outlet, it ran down the rails and inside the unit, making a mess that took me 20 minutes to clean up with a lot of paper towels. Hoping I can find a way to improve the flow so it's not so messy next oil change.

Other than the fuel gauge issue, the generator has been putting in yeoman service. And it's a good thing I got it just in time. My Northstar generator, which has been up for sale for 10 months (Honda V-twin engine with 303 hours on the clock) blew a piston ring today while I was running it to maintain it from taking on moisture. Engine sticker says "made in China" so maybe that's not a real Honda engine. Being I purchased that in 2011, I'm sure Honda won't honor the warranty. So now I need to find a good small engine repair shop that can fix it so I can put it back on the market.

 

[justinn]

Sorry to hear about the Big C.... Hope everything turns out ok

Funny, I have a 75 hour 803 with the same issue. Here's the rub though..... If I run it for 10 minutes, it automagically fixes itself until I let the gen sit again. I haven't dove in to it yet as it's not a pressing matter(since it has a mind of its own), so if you happen to discover what's causing it, please post it here. I will do the same, although it might be a couple of months before I pull it back down.

On the oil, I've found the same thing.... it takes forever. I usually just use the suction method out of the dipstick. It's faster, and I am certain that I get more oil out that way. The factory drain is not the lowest point of the pan, so I prefer to vacuum it out. Some people might cause it laziness, but I call it efficiency

Justin

 

[Ray70]

 

[Mweiss]

Thanks for the helpful insights on what to expect on the oil changes. I thought there might be something obstructing the exit pipe, but glad to hear it's normal. The idea of using a vacuum pump to suck out the old oil sounds like a good idea. Any recommendations for such equipment would be appreciated.

The gauge measurement data is going to be a huge help. I'll run those tests when the rain stops in a couple of days. I'm running the generator now, as solar only brought in 10kWh all day. About 90 minutes run will top off batteries.

My cancer came as a complete surprise. Doctor said the bleeding may have been caused by the Plavix I am on for heart failure (last year's 2nd major heart attack). Had stomach cancer surgery to remove stromal tumor. Am recovering, but lost so much blood that I am anemic and out of breath all the time. I'm busy getting the manual for the house main infrastructure prepared, so my wife can know how to handle things after I am gone.

 

[marchplumber]

Being prepared is crucial for the survivors!! Been there, done that......

As a plumber, I hear it all the time.....husband/wife passed.....other is "lost" about details of household....

God is with you!!

 

[Mweiss]

Was running the 803A today (raining all day, no solar) and it shut down unexpectedly. I could swear I had a full tank of fuel in there 3 hours earlier in run time. AUX fuel pump comes on, but not the main fuel pump and the No Fuel light is on. We're in the middle of a major rain event, so will have to wait. My backup generator blew a piston ring last week, so I have nothing until I find out what happened to the fuel system.
My fuel gauge stopped working at 95 hours, so I really have no idea how much fuel is left.
Some photos of where these fuel senders are mounted, so it can be distinguished from the main fuel sender would help.

 

[Coug]

For oil extractor I've been using an Extoil brand manual extractor for about 2 years now for my business and it's held up excellent. They appear to be unavailable from the place I bought it, but found one on ebay for about what I paid. Bought it for my VW engine (I don't have to put it up on jack stands as the filter is on top and the vacuum tube will fit down the dipstick, and only misses a few ounces of oil compared to using the drain plug)

Oil Extractor Fluid Pump 10L Manual Vacuum w/ Gauge | eBay

High quality oil extractor with a 10 liter capacity. Includes three lengths of tubes of different sizes and built-in tube storage. Also has retractable foot pedal to allow you to hold the extractor down with your foot while pumping.

www.ebay.com

I've also had a Mityvac brand extractor for about a decade now. Still works great, just didn't fit the space in my service truck as nicely as the other one. One advantage of this one is it has a reversible valve that allows you to either pump into the vac tank, or pressurize the tank and force oil out of it.

https://www.northerntool.com/products/mityvac-fluid-evacuator-2-3-gallon-model-mv7201-3316149

 

[Mweiss]

I've set up my external AUX fuel tank this week, but I am concerned about the automatic working of the AUX fuel pump in light of the fact that my fuel gauge stopped working.

My understanding is that the genset is to be run with the switch in the AUX position, so it can draw fuel from the external tank and keep replenishing the internal day tank. But with the fuel gauge malfunction, will this still work?

I haven't been able to get to the fuel senders yet, as the bolts keep spinning when I try to remove the panel. It seems there's a nut behind each screw that spins when I turn the screw. As I have no access to the nuts, I was unable to proceed further with the fuel sender inspection.

If someone can clarify how the generator controls the draw from the external tank, and what the requirements are for that to work properly, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[vrzff]

I've set up my external AUX fuel tank this week, but I am concerned about the automatic working of the AUX fuel pump in light of the fact that my fuel gauge stopped working.

My understanding is that the genset is to be run with the switch in the AUX position, so it can draw fuel from the external tank and keep replenishing the internal day tank. But with the fuel gauge malfunction, will this still work?

I haven't been able to get to the fuel senders yet, as the bolts keep spinning when I try to remove the panel. It seems there's a nut behind each screw that spins when I turn the screw. As I have no access to the nuts, I was unable to proceed further with the fuel sender inspection.

If someone can clarify how the generator controls the draw from the external tank, and what the requirements are for that to work properly, it would be greatly appreciated.

The aux pump (and low fuel shutdown) is controlled by a dual float switch in the tank-- nothing to do with the fuel level sender. When the tank reaches basically empty, the lower float tells the aux pump to start pumping, and continues filling the tank until the upper float switch shuts it down.

You'll want to watch this process happen at least once to make sure that both of the float switches work correctly, because if the upper float switch sticks it may not shut off the aux fuel pump-- which means a lot of diesel on the ground.

 

[vrzff]

On your fuel gauge problem, you'll want to take the rear lower panel off and just take that float / sender module right out.

From there, theres just a resistor strip and two contacts. The entire module comes apart, just clean it up nice and good, and it should work just fine again. You'll also want to clean the little contact buttons that ride on both the resistors, and the power contact. I find that bending the tabs (with the button contacts) out a little helps keep the reading steady. Don't bend them too far, or it will put so much pressure on the contacts that float won't be able to drop by gravity. You want the float to be able to drop by gravity.

Don't let the actual float fall off, or you're going to open up a big warm flat stale 40oz can of patience trying to get it back. What's even better is when it happens on an 831A, and getting the float back out challenges your intelligence.

 

[Mweiss]

Thanks for confirming the separate float/fuel level control for the aux pump.

I noticed that when I switch the main start switch to AUX, even if the day tank is full, I hear the pump running. Is that normal or a malfunction of the float?

Earlier this year, I tried unscrewing some of the cabinet screws, but they just spin around and never come out. They come loose, but it seem there's a nut behind each screw. I could not find a way to access the other side to hold the nuts with a wrench. What's the secret to getting the panels off?

Okay on the warning about not letting the float fall off the rods. Duly noted.

 

[vrzff]

Thanks for confirming the separate float/fuel level control for the aux pump.

I noticed that when I switch the main start switch to AUX, even if the day tank is full, I hear the pump running. Is that normal or a malfunction of the float?

Earlier this year, I tried unscrewing some of the cabinet screws, but they just spin around and never come out. They come loose, but it seem there's a nut behind each screw. I could not find a way to access the other side to hold the nuts with a wrench. What's the secret to getting the panels off?

Okay on the warning about not letting the float fall off the rods. Duly noted.

You only need to remove the rear lower back panel going around the fuel filler / aux fuel connection nook.

All of the 5/16" machine screws around the left, top, and right and filler have captured nuts-- nothing should spin. The bottom fasteners are 3/8" with nuts, lock rings, and washers. Those will spin, but the nuts are accessible to hold with a socket drive on the bottom lip.