hot rod deuce
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Wana unload the exhaust break? seeing that you cant use it? Any idea what a 5.9 will take for exhaust presure?
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Motor Swapping
- Thread starter DrFoster
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nevrenufhp
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The 6BT/5.9 can take whatever exhaust brake you throw at it. It would be of benefit to replace the exhaust valves with the stiffer 60lb. ones, unless you already did all of them for the gov. spring kit.
Another good alternative for repower that hasn't been mentioned is a DT466 from a Kornbinder truck. Most people say it's the best med. duty truck engine ever. I've seen them from $1000 for a rebuilder & up to $8500 for new ones. Power potential is just as easy as a Cummins 6BT, just not as many vendors. It'll last as long at 450hp, as a 6BT does at 350hp.
Another good alternative for repower that hasn't been mentioned is a DT466 from a Kornbinder truck. Most people say it's the best med. duty truck engine ever. I've seen them from $1000 for a rebuilder & up to $8500 for new ones. Power potential is just as easy as a Cummins 6BT, just not as many vendors. It'll last as long at 450hp, as a 6BT does at 350hp.
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To measure the exhaust back pressure, install a line like this (image below). The butterfly valve can be adjusted for diffrent max pressures.
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Gatnom
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HRD: I know your not running the Dodge version so not sure what weight exhaust springs you will have. The Pac Brake engineers say the stock Dodge engine is good to 40 psi of back pressure. I have been limiting my CTD to that # with no problems. Once you decide on the max pressure and rpm you will use, you can adjust the size of the opening in the butterfly to limit you to that #. I’m working on a brake for my multifuel right now but am not sure what the max safe back pressure is going to be. Anyone have an idea? Beltfed34 on ebay has some Pac Brakes from a 3126 Cat application for sale right now that with some mounting flange modification should work, (this is what I’m working with). Dave
hot rod deuce
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What would happen if you used a jonson bar (air presure regulator) to activate it.
Gatnom
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The butterfly valve is either open or closed, so you end up working against the surface area of the exhaust valve and the valve spring tension. I don't think you stand much chance of being able to throttle the butterfly with regulated air pressure to control back pressure. The only way to do it is by controlling the rpm you use it at or makeing sure the bleed hole in the butterfly plate is big enough that you can't develop enough back pressure to pop the exhaust valve open and get a piston at max operating rpm's. I think that is where you were headed right? Dave
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There is a "stop" adjustment on my butterfly valve. This permits setting of a max back pressure at a given rpm.
Called Hercules about the exhaust valve springs and was told there is only one available, which is the stock one.
35-40 psi is probably a safe range for the max on the multifuel engine.
Called Hercules about the exhaust valve springs and was told there is only one available, which is the stock one.
35-40 psi is probably a safe range for the max on the multifuel engine.
Gatnom
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An adjustable stop would be nice! I'm guessing that alterations can be made externally. The only experience I have is wth "PacBrake" brand. Obviously different mfg's do things different ways. That 35 to 40 pound # will apply a fair amount ot of brakeing effort. Thanks: Dave
DrFoster
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That's great info HRD - thanks.
Gatnom
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Bjorn: You wouldn't happen to have a good photo of that adjusatable stop would you. The operating linkage on mine looks very similar to yours from what I can see. I can picture how I might add a stop but would like to see how yours was done. Thanks, Dave
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Perhaps these images will help you.
It's a simple device and the movement of the lever is stopped by the screw, which is adjusted in or out for the desired opening when the butterfly valve is activated.
It's a simple device and the movement of the lever is stopped by the screw, which is adjusted in or out for the desired opening when the butterfly valve is activated.
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DrFoster
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dang CT, you've got EVERY toy on your rig.
About the 5.9 cummins (non-dodge) exhaust brake, I can get entire kits of those. I'm not sure how they link up on the exhaust, I'll have to look at it again. I BELIEVE and don't quote me on this, but I saw the module for the "sorta-jake brake" on the exhaust downpipe just after the turbo. If that's the case, it's only a 3" module.
I'll look for it if I get some time and get back to you guys if you're interested.
About the 5.9 cummins (non-dodge) exhaust brake, I can get entire kits of those. I'm not sure how they link up on the exhaust, I'll have to look at it again. I BELIEVE and don't quote me on this, but I saw the module for the "sorta-jake brake" on the exhaust downpipe just after the turbo. If that's the case, it's only a 3" module.
I'll look for it if I get some time and get back to you guys if you're interested.
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I ran the DT466 up the flagpole here some time ago and started a lot of rantings about it not being as good an engine as the multiflop.
Good to have your input, any port in a storm!
dg
Good to have your input, any port in a storm!
dg
JasonS
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There was a DT466 powered tractor puller here a few summers ago. I don't remember which class it was in but it competed against allisons, rolls royces, and supercharged BBCs. I believe that it won its class...
hot rod deuce
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Hey guys check this out. I realy like CT's idea. Heck when i found this about a week ago i thought "hey ill put that behind the heat guard"
As usual he was one (or two) steps ahead of me. This one has two valves. one that is the on or off and another that works as a protection valve.
What about a knife valve in order to be variable? put one of them electronic motors that transmits location on it and a series of LED's in the cab to let you know how deep the pipe is cut off.
Or then again the other one is SO simple.
As usual he was one (or two) steps ahead of me. This one has two valves. one that is the on or off and another that works as a protection valve.
What about a knife valve in order to be variable? put one of them electronic motors that transmits location on it and a series of LED's in the cab to let you know how deep the pipe is cut off.
Or then again the other one is SO simple.
nevrenufhp
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Considering it's probably the most loved med. duty truck engine out there, I dont see how it doesnt get 2 thumbs up.G744 said:
What does the LDS465 weigh? The DT466 cant be all that much heavier
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You guys seem to know alot about swapping engines in the M35.
I've been told the simplest swap for more power is to go from the LDT-465 to the LDS-465 5-ton engine.
The original engine has what, 126HP @ 300 LB-FT, and the 5-ton has 175-180HP @ 425 LB-FT of TQ?
I got the specs from these manuals:
2.5 ton engine specs: (TM 9-2320-209-10-1)
5-ton engine specs: (TM 9-2320-211-20)
The reason I ask is that my M35 weighs in at 20,000 LB with the AN/GRM-32D electronics repair shop on it (like an S-280) and I tow an M105 trailer with 1000 LBS in it, so when going up any kind of hill, the beast bogs down from the flat road speed of 55MPH to 35-40MPH, and by that time I'm in 4th gear with it struggling at 2000RPM to keep moving and get over the hill.
I have no way to swap something that large. Repo-Depo says it's mostly a drop-in, no need to change transmissions etc, and they can do this 'reasonable' and will guarantee it, but is this enough power?
I'm not looking to race it or start snapping axles, but it definitely needs more cojones. 90% of the driving is highway, at 50-55 MPH with 11.00x20 tires all around incl. duals in the rears. I welcome any comments or suggestions for better/alternative engines which can be installed as repo dep says, 'reasonable', as well as where I can get it done (I'm in Texas but would consider a road trip -there's nothing wrong with the existing engine). I don't want to lose any of the so-called "top end speed". Better to ask for the comments before I make a decision!
Thanks,
Patrick
I've been told the simplest swap for more power is to go from the LDT-465 to the LDS-465 5-ton engine.
The original engine has what, 126HP @ 300 LB-FT, and the 5-ton has 175-180HP @ 425 LB-FT of TQ?
I got the specs from these manuals:
2.5 ton engine specs: (TM 9-2320-209-10-1)
5-ton engine specs: (TM 9-2320-211-20)
The reason I ask is that my M35 weighs in at 20,000 LB with the AN/GRM-32D electronics repair shop on it (like an S-280) and I tow an M105 trailer with 1000 LBS in it, so when going up any kind of hill, the beast bogs down from the flat road speed of 55MPH to 35-40MPH, and by that time I'm in 4th gear with it struggling at 2000RPM to keep moving and get over the hill.
I have no way to swap something that large. Repo-Depo says it's mostly a drop-in, no need to change transmissions etc, and they can do this 'reasonable' and will guarantee it, but is this enough power?
I'm not looking to race it or start snapping axles, but it definitely needs more cojones. 90% of the driving is highway, at 50-55 MPH with 11.00x20 tires all around incl. duals in the rears. I welcome any comments or suggestions for better/alternative engines which can be installed as repo dep says, 'reasonable', as well as where I can get it done (I'm in Texas but would consider a road trip -there's nothing wrong with the existing engine). I don't want to lose any of the so-called "top end speed". Better to ask for the comments before I make a decision!
Thanks,
Patrick
98hd
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The more I read this thread and think about the subject, the more I think a 12v 5.9l cummins is the best swap.
Slide the fuel plate, maybe some injectors, and add a set of twins and an intercooler to keep the egt's in check. Should be more than enough for even a 5 ton truck.
There are guys towing some heavy loads w/ these engines slightly modded w/ no engine troubles.
Slide the fuel plate, maybe some injectors, and add a set of twins and an intercooler to keep the egt's in check. Should be more than enough for even a 5 ton truck.
There are guys towing some heavy loads w/ these engines slightly modded w/ no engine troubles.
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I've had both, the B series ana the DT on the dyno, that's what I do for a living. Not to be biased, but the B, CPL 1553, 230hp 850ft lb walks all over the DT. The power is best at rated RPM but the torque is down at 17-1800 RPM. It will hold a load much better than the DT. If 230 is too much, try the 210hp, CPL 1552 engine. Both of these were put into the Freightliner FL 50, 60 and 70 chassis. Why not try the Cummins C series? They are available up to 330hp, 1100 ft lb. 505 CID, I havn't done the measurements yet, but I think they are the same size as the LDT. These too were put into the Freightliner chassis
hot rod deuce
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dang this was supposed to be in my last post
http://www.drivetrain.com/howsdieselexhbrakewo.html
Hey willwagner, Do you know if there is a CPL for around 250-300 HP for the Bseries? (that 1553 looks good though) I want a good reliable motor. None of this slide the fuel plate and keep your eyes glued on the pyro. My cpl is 1551, if i up to the .0197 head gasket to lower compresion ratio will the thicker one be weaker due to surface area?
As for the c series i would kill for one but dang they sure hold value!!
http://www.drivetrain.com/howsdieselexhbrakewo.html
Hey willwagner, Do you know if there is a CPL for around 250-300 HP for the Bseries? (that 1553 looks good though) I want a good reliable motor. None of this slide the fuel plate and keep your eyes glued on the pyro. My cpl is 1551, if i up to the .0197 head gasket to lower compresion ratio will the thicker one be weaker due to surface area?
As for the c series i would kill for one but dang they sure hold value!!