Our New Departmental MRAP

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Mercunimog404

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I wish I lived in your world...I guess you've never been shot at nor had dynamite thrown at you. Just because you don't hear/see it reported on the evening news doesn't mean that it's not happening. It DOES happen in fact, and getting shot at is becoming a daily occurrence.

LEOs DO have a need for these vehicles...it seems like at least once a week we're receiving confidential briefings on potential IEDs and homemade EFPs currently being deployed by various criminal entities, as well as items being discovered at our borders (God only knows how many have gotten through undetected so far).

As for IEDs not being set off in this country, I guess you've never accompanied a task force taking down meth labs nor the large Mexican cartel-run marijuana grow areas not far from you...there are in fact IEDs and all kinds of booby-traps around those areas, and they are accessible by vehicles & MRAPs.

To say that LEOs have no use for these, is to be ignorant of the facts as we face today...I fear for the LEOs of the near future, my time is winding down and it's not looking good.
In fact I have been shot at and rocketed and mortared. So don't go thinking you're bad ass :). You must be the one super swat guy in the world then. I have many cop buddies and they are in no way in any kind of danger. I have many swat friends and they are never in any way in any kind of danger. I guess LA and NYC must have huge fire fights in a daily basis. Apparently the streets of this nation are more dangerous than being deployed I a combat zone. Huh. Who knew.
 

silverstate55

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A couple of years ago several LEO's and the local Drug Task Force were attempting to serve a warrant on a tweaker and his girlfriend. The designated a**hole stepped out on the porch and opened fire with an AK and killed two deputies. I don't know if having one of these vehicles would have helped but it couldn't have hurt.

The fact that law enforcement needs these vehicles is a sad commentary on the criminal justice system, not the rank and file that are out there enforcing the law.

While there is a potential for their misuse I have to have faith that 99 percent of LEO's would do the right thing if asked to misuse these vehicles or violate their oaths to uphold our Constitution. The right thing being refusing an illegal order.
Having served in an armored unit (tanks) I understand that there is a doctrine to using armor against a threat.

<snip>
Too true. As I stated above, I only have a few years left before retiring, and I fear for the younger officers who currently & will have to face escalating threats in the coming years. Society is becoming more violent, and more reckless.

The chances of these vehicles being misused are pretty low; they're more likely to be mistreated and neglected than misused. There are far too many bad guys & girls out there committing real crimes to worry about any potential misdeeds of law-abiding citizens. Everyone loves to pick out the exception to the rule and try to make it the rule, when in reality it is the opposite.

For some there is the perception that MRAPs will be used for regular patrol duties and to harass citizens....if that does indeed happen, then there is a definite lack of leadership with that agency & will be the exception to the rule. Most departments have trouble even buying new patrol vehicles these days, I just don't see how an (non-federal) agency could justify using one for something other than dire emergencies.

As for your example above with the unfortunate incident of two deputies being gunned down, the MRAP probably only could have assisted with the emergency under-fire evacuation of the stricken deputies; with the sincere hope that there would be a better chance of them surviving with quick medical assistance.
 

Mercunimog404

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Too true. As I stated above, I only have a few years left before retiring, and I fear for the younger officers who currently & will have to face escalating threats in the coming years. Society is becoming more violent, and more reckless.

The chances of these vehicles being misused are pretty low; they're more likely to be mistreated and neglected than misused. There are far too many bad guys & girls out there committing real crimes to worry about any potential misdeeds of law-abiding citizens. Everyone loves to pick out the exception to the rule and try to make it the rule, when in reality it is the opposite.

For some there is the perception that MRAPs will be used for regular patrol duties and to harass citizens....if that does indeed happen, then there is a definite lack of leadership with that agency & will be the exception to the rule. Most departments have trouble even buying new patrol vehicles these days, I just don't see how an (non-federal) agency could justify using one for something other than dire emergencies.

As for your example above with the unfortunate incident of two deputies being gunned down, the MRAP probably only could have assisted with the emergency under-fire evacuation of the stricken deputies; with the sincere hope that there would be a better chance of them surviving with quick medical assistance.
And 99.99% of po po never fire there weapon or are fired upon.
 

silverstate55

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In fact I have been shot at and rocketed and mortared. So don't go thinking you're bad ass :). You must be the one super swat guy in the world then. I have many cop buddies and they are in no way in any kind of danger. I have many swat friends and they are never in any way in any kind of danger. I guess LA and NYC must have huge fire fights in a daily basis. Apparently the streets of this nation are more dangerous than being deployed I a combat zone. Huh. Who knew.
Nice sarcastic come-back, and NO, I don't work SWAT. I'm no badass, I just do my job because it's what I do...I've never been a medal-chaser.

I've served more than my share of search warrants & been shot at & been in too many dangerous situations in more than my 20 years of LE experience. I definitely don't appreciate your tone, especially when I'm trying to explain how these vehicles are absolutely useful, especially when the military declares them surplus & offers them free to LE agencies.

But since your "swat" buddies tell you they're never in danger & being a LEO is a safe profession, it must be nice to be an ostrich. I never said anything that indicated "the streets of this nation are more dangerous than being deployed I a combat zone."

I said nothing that deserves your reply.
 

silverstate55

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I used to always wonder why more police departments didn't use commercial armored trucks a la Wells Fargo, like the police in the North Hollywood shootout borrowed, but recently realized these FMVs were free loaners and saved the taxpayer's 100s of thousands of dollars. The loaner program also keeps the vehicles in service and available for recall in the event of an all-out war of the scale of WWII, instead of a pile of scrap metal on a slow boat to China.
Price is the main sticking point with commercial armored trucks; for nearly the same cost, you could have a purpose-built armored truck built instead. Used commercial armored trucks are pretty pricey as well, and are mostly used up.
 

Heath_h49008

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I wish I lived in your world...I guess you've never been shot at nor had dynamite thrown at you. Just because you don't hear/see it reported on the evening news doesn't mean that it's not happening. It DOES happen in fact, and getting shot at is becoming a daily occurrence.

LEOs DO have a need for these vehicles...it seems like at least once a week we're receiving confidential briefings on potential IEDs and homemade EFPs currently being deployed by various criminal entities, as well as items being discovered at our borders (God only knows how many have gotten through undetected so far).

As for IEDs not being set off in this country, I guess you've never accompanied a task force taking down meth labs nor the large Mexican cartel-run marijuana grow areas not far from you...there are in fact IEDs and all kinds of booby-traps around those areas, and they are accessible by vehicles & MRAPs.

To say that LEOs have no use for these, is to be ignorant of the facts as we face today...I fear for the LEOs of the near future, my time is winding down and it's not looking good.
http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/
 

Durango_USMC

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silverstate55

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typically what would you use a MRAP for? I used them overseas and am now aware that some police forces are getting them. I would think that the situation would have to be pretty hairy if you needed to take a MRAP. They do roll over very easy so be careful.
Typically they would be used as rolling cover during a high-risk search warrant (where the suspect is known to be armed, etc..), and for emergency evacuation under fire for wounded officers & civilians. In an active shooter situation, especially one involving a school (Columbine, VA-Tech, Newtown, et. al.), they would be deployed for both of the above examples and to help in the evacuation of as many students & staff as possible.

Thanks for your advice of MRAPs being top-heavy; I sincerely hope the agencies take this to heart.
 

silverstate55

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I thought that was some of your other writings.
What exactly did I do for you to make that connection? How in any sense could my justifications for LE use of MRAPs lead to your declaring I'm nothing more than a "mall ninja?"

Nice cheap shot. Completely uncalled for, but nice cheap shot nonetheless.

So, in your estimation, why do LE agencies have no use for MRAPs? How am I wrong?
 

Durango_USMC

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Can I throw a friendly reminder out there? Guys this is a thread about a used MRAP being put to use by a department. They already have it, its pretty much a done deal. Cheap shots at someone making a logical point as to why an armored vehicle is necessary in certain instances of modern police work have no purpose. Infact the very need to explain why an armored vehicle would be needed it to someone who disagrees on a personal or political basis should have never been needed either. Don't like departments having MRAPS, APC's, or anything else? There's plenty of sites dedicated to complaining about the police.

This site is dedicated to Military Vehicles past, presant, and future... not cheap shots, political and personal philosophical rhetoric, arguments, etc... Can we get back on topic of the actual truck? This is a cool thread with some useful posts and pictures I'd like to see it remain open as a build thread. I believe there may have been a general warning already posted by one of the moderators.
 

bikeman

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Price is the main sticking point with commercial armored trucks; for nearly the same cost, you could have a purpose-built armored truck built instead. Used commercial armored trucks are pretty pricey as well, and are mostly used up.
Commercial armored cars are also built to protect the cargo... which is normally in small bags, loaded in a secure or at least visually protected loading dock, and probably doesn't move, or bleed or anything. They are designed for a crew of 3-4, who are not wearing 80-100 lbs of gear.

Sure, they will do in a pinch, but if you're going to be dropping the taxpayer money, spend it wisely. And if you can get something that first your bill without spending ANY taxpayer money, wouldn't that be better? I'm guessing most average citizens would rather that hundred thousand dollars or so go to schools or road repair or something than a SWAT Vehicle. With this government program it now can.

Segway on this... I see the MaxxPros, Caimens, RG33s being used for this program. the M-ATVs would really not fit the bill. I think we are retaining the M-ATVs for the most part as partial HMMWV replacements. I still haven't seen the full plan laid out anywhere.
 
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