Possibly No More Trucks from DLA

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swiss

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In the big picture this issue breaks down into 2 separate items

1.) New sales from DOD of DMRO equipment: This is the issue we are currently discussing in this thread. If you look realistically at the issue long term, there is only so many 900 series trucks and LMTV vehicles left. The government is not going to ever sell armour and armour is the only thing they are buying so this will eventually dry up anyway.

2.) Second issue is current ownership of these vehicles. This issue has not yet surfaced but could be on the horizon and we just do not see it.
 

ke5eua

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Every time I had posted in this thread it has been deleted. Once I made a joke but the others I mentioned farmers, and other key things.

This will be an issue for farmers that purchase vehicles, and what I don't understand is if the EPA is all about cleaning up the environment then what do the farmers have to look forward to as the current equipment isn't regulated. I foresee DEF, regen, and other crap being mandated in tractors, combiners, and other stuff.

The government will loose money if they just scrap the vehicles, look at the hummers, specialty shops will loose money. I am all for getting our representatives involved, but we also need to know which representatives have the epa in their back pockets, and come up with a standard well written letter, possibly by a lawyer who knows his / her stuff when it comes to this topic.
 

Scar59

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This will be an issue for farmers that purchase vehicles, and what I don't understand is if the EPA is all about cleaning up the environment then what do the farmers have to look forward to as the current equipment isn't regulated. I foresee DEF, regen, and other crap being mandated in tractors, combiners, and other stuff.

EPA is already on the farm. 2011 or newer hi horsepower ag tractors/equipment are DEF equipped. Fuel Storage now requires containment bunker/dike.
Several of my MVs are tagged as "Farm" and run on ultra low sulfer D2.
 

ke5eua

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This will be an issue for farmers that purchase vehicles, and what I don't understand is if the EPA is all about cleaning up the environment then what do the farmers have to look forward to as the current equipment isn't regulated. I foresee DEF, regen, and other crap being mandated in tractors, combiners, and other stuff.

EPA is already on the farm. 2011 or newer hi horsepower ag tractors/equipment are DEF equipped. Fuel Storage now requires containment bunker/dike.
Several of my MVs are tagged as "Farm" and run on ultra low sulfer D2.
I guess we got lucky, still have our 500 gallon red tank. Just had it filled earlier this year. While we don't have big ag equipment our newest kubota is a straight exhaust through a small muffler.
 

swiss

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It would be helpful if users post information they do the research and find credible sources such as goverment sites, copies of bills, letters, statements etc. Bottom line please post a link to your source of information or scanned copy of data. We have a large body of members who can be researchers but without the source documents it is useless.
 
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Keith_J

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The issue isn't anthropogenic greenhouse gas emission but rather Clean Air Act amendments with regards to motor vehicles. Even CUCVs had the DoD exemption from CAA regulations, this is a placard on the original radiator support on all CUCVs.

In the commercial world, annual changes to engine and emissions controls are common, for simplicity, most MVs have identical parts over the entire contract and model. This makes sustainment easier but can make later models non compliant with CAA.
 

wreckerman893

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I spoke to an Alabama Forestry Commission worker today and to say they are unhappy with the situation is an understatement of epic scale.
In it's misguided effort to appease the forest service and fire departments from all states the EPA has made an exemption that will allow the trucks to be sent to certain agencies but they will not get title to them. At the end of their service life they will have to be returned to their point of origin for disposal (scrapping) at the cost of the owning agency.

I'm going to post the information but I can't post the point of origin of this email.

Hi all - DLA asked that I wait to send anything out until they had officially sent out notice and unfortunately I wasn’t available when they sent the notice to me at 3:30 this afternoon. But many of you have already seen the notice and have sent me emails. I will try to answer all of your questions below, but if I’ve missed something, please let me know. I've also attached the current list of national security exempt (NSE) national stock numbers (NSN’s), I broke them out by description for those of you that are not familiar with what the NSN’s are – these are not all items in these descriptions, they are only those with particular NSNs. According to DLA, in FY13 the FFP program only picked up 142 items on the list of NSNs attached. I will say we had a bad FY 13, but that isn’t the point, the rules of the program have trained…..

1. This is only for the FFP program, at this point there is no decision on the FEPP program – DLA says they will be discussing FEPP soon.
2. Property already issued under FFP, where ownership has already transferred, is not being discussed here. There HAS NOT been any suggestion that you will have to return or track the FFP that you have already gotten ownership of.
3. Ownership will not transfer for the nearly 900 NSN’s on the attached list of items, this list is fluid, TACOM and EPA are still building the list, so expect more NSNs to be added, DLA hopes to have the complete list by early next week. Keep in mind that they have the authority to add or remove NSNs as needed, the original list of NSN has been expanded to include:
a. commercial passenger vehicles
b. all military vehicles
c. assault or tactical vehicles
d. Agricultural and industrial tractors
e. All gasoline and diesel engines that we get as replacement parts
f. Airframe mounted auxiliary power units
g. All heavy equipment – bull dozers, graders, etc.
h. Construction Equipment
i. Fire Truck (there is only one NSN for the fire trucks, it is typical truck from what I can see, but it does have a name of “Tactical Fire Truck” which is probably why it is on the list)
j. Bridges, fixed and floating (I guess some must have engines in them?)
k. Generators
l. All tracked military vehicles
m. Forklifts
n. Compressors and pumps
o. Cranes
p. Any material handling equipment that has an engine
q. Road clearing/cleaning equipment

4. Ownership of these items will remain with DoD.
5. All property will be tracked in FEPMIS with the NSN and VIN or serial number.
6. You will do a Change of Status and create an DD 1348-1a to return the item to the closest DLADS site.
7. States will have to do an inventory of the item each year.

What it means for the FS and the state cooperator prior to getting any of these property items:

1. I need to get an Addendum to the FFP agreement with DLA. I’ve already contacted DLA about this, hopefully it won’t take very long to get it done.
2. I’m not sure if we will need new agreements with each of the states that participate in FFP – hopefully I can just do an Addendum to that as well since it takes months to get something through Directives.
3. I need to get a way to track all of these NSN’s in FEPMIS to ensure that the property is tracked.
4. Once I can show this to DLA in Battle Creek they will start offering the NSN’s for our viewing and screening again.

I expressed my displeasure with what we got, but it is clear that this is the best that TACOM will be offering.
 
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swiss

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Wreckerman thank you for posting this information. Could somebody please translate all the acronyms for some of us :(

FPP
FEP
FEMIS
FS
DLA
 

Suprman

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One might want to be careful making too many waves. Not much stopping EPA or DOD from contacting state DMV's making trouble for current MV registration renewals.
 

Coffey1

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I am sorry but that Post is just wrong . We the the sheep should be kicking, screaming rocking the boat.
Or sooner or later we won't be able to.
 

NEIOWA

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FEPP - Federal Excess Property Program (loan to FD, has been around since Korean War)
FFP - Fire Fighter Program (only been around for about 4yr. FD trying to establish for years. not used in all states yet, FD get title to vehicle/equipment)
LESO - Law Enforcement Support Office - for police they get title to vehicle/equipment.
FS - Forest Service. US Forestry operates the FEPP and FFP program. Recieves title from DOD and loans (FEPP) or transfers (FFP) to State Foresters who then do same to local Fire Dept (FD) Pretty rigorous inspection and accountability program. For those of you with mil background pretty much what expect from the Bn/Co Supply
 
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springbok

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Good morning,

I understand you spoke with Senator (My Local Senator) last night regarding the hold on the distribution of DOD equipment based on an EPA emissions concern. Just wanted to let you know that as of yesterday the prohibition on the distribution of such equipment to law enforcement and the fire service has been lifted. More work needs to be done but we met with members of the Delaware Volunteer Fire Association yesterday on just this topic. The official communication we received was, “DLA has notified Congress that they’re lifting the restriction on the transfer of surplus military equipment under their Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO) and “Firefighter Programs by reapplying the National Security Exemption.” This is not a permanent fix but they are working through the issue.

I have asked for a follow up if this will lift the ban to all sales. I will update if I get more.
 

swiss

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Good morning,

I understand you spoke with Senator (My Local Senator) last night regarding the hold on the distribution of DOD equipment based on an EPA emissions concern. Just wanted to let you know that as of yesterday the prohibition on the distribution of such equipment to law enforcement and the fire service has been lifted. More work needs to be done but we met with members of the Delaware Volunteer Fire Association yesterday on just this topic. The official communication we received was, “DLA has notified Congress that they’re lifting the restriction on the transfer of surplus military equipment under their Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO) and “Firefighter Programs by reapplying the National Security Exemption.” This is not a permanent fix but they are working through the issue.

I have asked for a follow up if this will lift the ban to all sales. I will update if I get more.

Springbok can you help us understand the context of this post? Is this an email from somebody? In response to a call you did to somebody?
 

springbok

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Update, Currently there will be no decision on selling these to the public, the main goal was to allow Law and Fire fighters to get them. There is more than just the EPA, no sholder belt, no airbags and in many states the bumper and headlights are to high so I know in Delaware they will not allow any to be tagged moving forward. they are going to bring up farmers to see if they can add that to an exception...
Doing what I can to get answers, not fight it...
 
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