Removing the switching stress from K1 on 803a

Farmitall

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Not sure if this is widely known knowledge among 803 owners but if you are using K1 as your switching relay to apply a load that is directly connected to the load terminals without breakers or switches further down the line towards the load you are stressing the K1 contacts and shortening its lifespan.

K1 applies power from the generator head to the load terminals and the less load(preferably no load) that is there when the contacts make, the better it is for the relay. It eliminates any arching that would occur when a load is present on the load terminals.

By using external breakers which are easier to obtain and far cheaper to apply the load to an already CLOSED K1, you will save yourself the headaches of having to find a K1 relay if and when it goes bad because the contacts have become burned or welded together.

Just something that owners should consider to improve longevity of their sets.
 

naehring2000

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Not sure if this is widely known knowledge among 803 owners but if you are using K1 as your switching relay to apply a load that is directly connected to the load terminals without breakers or switches further down the line towards the load you are stressing the K1 contacts and shortening its lifespan.

K1 applies power from the generator head to the load terminals and the less load(preferably no load) that is there when the contacts make, the better it is for the relay. It eliminates any arching that would occur when a load is present on the load terminals.

By using external breakers which are easier to obtain and far cheaper to apply the load to an already CLOSED K1, you will save yourself the headaches of having to find a K1 relay if and when it goes bad because the contacts have become burned or welded together.

Just something that owners should consider to improve longevity of their sets.
That's an excellent point that probably most owners don't even consider, I was thinking about that today as I was testing out the add on relay to the Inova auto start that opens the contactor and was wondering whether the contactor was vacuum or oil filled to mitigate this.
 

Farmitall

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That's an excellent point that probably most owners don't even consider, I was thinking about that today as I was testing out the add on relay to the Inova auto start that opens the contactor and was wondering whether the contactor was vacuum or oil filled to mitigate this.
I've never taken a K1 relay apart but I'm sure there is at least one member here who has. I doubt it is vacuum or wetted.

I do know that it's not an easy part to come by and certainly not cheap to replace.
 

Bmxenbrett

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A outdoor rated 60a 240v disconnect, with the external arm is about $65 at homedepot. Cheap money and can work as a safety disconnect too.
 

csheath

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So my start up routine should include triggering the interrupter before turning on the house breaker. That is good to know.

I have been turning off all the 240s but it will have an amp or two on when I pull the trigger.
 

DieselAddict

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So my start up routine should include triggering the interrupter before turning on the house breaker. That is good to know.I have been turning off all the 240s but it will have an amp or two on when I pull the trigger.
You should be fine with that. What causes the most damage is energizing and breaking inductive loads such as motors on AC units. Having some light load connected isn't going to cause any serious wear and tear.
 

Guyfang

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The worst thing you can do to K1, is leave the entire load still turned on when you energize, or de-energize the K1. On a house, flip all the breakers down, start, (or stop) the set, energize, (or de-energize K1 and then turn on the house circuits one by one. Yes, I know the auto start is a fine thing, but plays **** with K1 contacts. As often as you all need it, I suppose you can get away with it for years, if not decades. But I am one of those stupid guys that believes in theory.
 

paine

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As always, good info! Thanks guys!

Had a good ice storm this past Sunday morning and lost power for around 13hrs. This was the first actual use of the 803 since purchasing around 8 months ago. Well worth it! I had to run a few space heaters to keep her around 50% load. the girl friend was using the electric oven all day and she was happy to have the 803!
 
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Bmxenbrett

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You dont need to keep it at 50* load. In 8hrs your not going to wet stack. Durring an outage i wouldnt worry about it at all.
 

DieselAddict

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You dont need to keep it at 50* load. In 8hrs your not going to wet stack. Durring an outage i wouldnt worry about it at all.
+1 on that. Run it like you need to and if you want to make sure the exhaust is tidy you can load it up for a bit before you cool-down and shut-down. That approach will save you some fuel.
 

paine

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You dont need to keep it at 50* load. In 8hrs your not going to wet stack. Durring an outage i wouldnt worry about it at all.
True, I understand that... I guess I was just using the power outage to exercise the unit some. Would I save much fuel at all if I was at say a 10 or 15% load for X amount of hours vs. 50% load? I have not had any time to do a fuel usage study!
 

DieselAddict

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If you look at load versus consumption you should see close to 0.6 gal/hr @ 50% load. At full load its around 1 gal/hr. At ultra light load it should be around 0.25 gal/hr.

If you ran at very low for say 10 hours then loaded it up for an hour at the end to make sure everything was tidy you are looking at ~3.5 gallons. Versus 10 hours at 50% load for 6 gallons total.

Even with a couple of days of very light loading you aren't going to see much buildup in the exhaust. Nothing that a half hour to an hour of 75% load won't take care of. Load it up and see how the exhaust looks. Go till the exhaust clears up then run for another 15 minutes. Done.
 

paine

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If you look at load versus consumption you should see close to 0.6 gal/hr @ 50% load. At full load its around 1 gal/hr. At ultra light load it should be around 0.25 gal/hr.

If you ran at very low for say 10 hours then loaded it up for an hour at the end to make sure everything was tidy you are looking at ~3.5 gallons. Versus 10 hours at 50% load for 6 gallons total.

Even with a couple of days of very light loading you aren't going to see much buildup in the exhaust. Nothing that a half hour to an hour of 75% load won't take care of. Load it up and see how the exhaust looks. Go till the exhaust clears up then run for another 15 minutes. Done.

Again, good info! I will only run the extra heater(s) if I am in a long term outage and for the bi-monthly exercise. 1500w heaters can he had for around $16 each at walmart, makes for an simple/easy way to load the set when needed. Also makes for a nice warm basement which was nice in the ice storm that was responsible for the power outage!

Now I just have to find an Aux fuel kit for a reasonable price !
 

DieselAddict

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Meaning the bung and pickup tube kit or tank? I am watching for a retired semi truck fuel tank. I have the fuel tank for a MEP003 that is in excellent condition that I'm going to put on the trailer with the 803 to extend the run time.
 

paine

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Meaning the bung and pickup tube kit or tank? I am watching for a retired semi truck fuel tank. I have the fuel tank for a MEP003 that is in excellent condition that I'm going to put on the trailer with the 803 to extend the run time.
The whole kit I guess, was thinking 55 gallon drums at first but I did see another post with a picture of a smaller semi tank mounted on the front of the 803 trailer and it looked like a nice setup. I have the 803 off the trailer at the moment and I am going back and fourth on how I want to set it up long term, keep on trailer or make a nice little base/stand for it with a good looking tank or sorts near the unit with some stone or something around it all.

Was thinking just get the mil-spec kit but it is pricey! https://greenmountaingenerators.com...erator-auxiliary-fuel-line-kit-fa1493fff3000/
 

DieselAddict

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I went a different route. I bought adapter fittings and I use refrigerator ice maker hoses. They are on the small side but they work fine on these small generators. Plus if a hose goes bad they are super cheap and readily available. Before people go all crazy.. They are PVC which is perfectly acceptable to use on diesel fuel. Just don't use them on your fridge afterwards. :)

Having the bung adapter would be really nice but not worth the high $$ in my opinion. If I run across one cheap I'm going to grab it but no way am I spending a lot on it.
 

naehring2000

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If you look at load versus consumption you should see close to 0.6 gal/hr @ 50% load. At full load its around 1 gal/hr. At ultra light load it should be around 0.25 gal/hr.

If you ran at very low for say 10 hours then loaded it up for an hour at the end to make sure everything was tidy you are looking at ~3.5 gallons. Versus 10 hours at 50% load for 6 gallons total.

Even with a couple of days of very light loading you aren't going to see much buildup in the exhaust. Nothing that a half hour to an hour of 75% load won't take care of. Load it up and see how the exhaust looks. Go till the exhaust clears up then run for another 15 minutes. Done.
That's good to know, I was worried wet stacking happened much sooner, The last storm I had my wife cycling a 240v shop heater on a 3 hr off 1 hr on schedule.
 

robson1015

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I went a different route. I bought adapter fittings and I use refrigerator ice maker hoses. They are on the small side but they work fine on these small generators. Plus if a hose goes bad they are super cheap and readily available. Before people go all crazy.. They are PVC which is perfectly acceptable to use on diesel fuel. Just don't use them on your fridge afterwards. :)

Having the bung adapter would be really nice but not worth the high $$ in my opinion. If I run across one cheap I'm going to grab it but no way am I spending a lot on it.
Found my bung adapter on the big auction site for $30. Very reasonable price.
 

Daybreak

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You dont need to keep it at 50* load. In 8hrs your not going to wet stack. Durring an outage i wouldnt worry about it at all.
Howdy,
Not true.
Keep the load up, for a better functioning engine life.

Your not going to save fuel. The higher loading through its life will always be better than using fuel a month later to exercise the unit for a hour at a high load to clean it out.

You would be better sitting in the dark with the generator not running too. (TIC) :deadhorse:
 
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paine

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Howdy,
Not true.
Keep the load up, for a better functioning engine life.

Your not going to save fuel. The higher loading through its life will always be better than using fuel a month later to exercise the unit for a hour at a high load to clean it out.

You would be better sitting in the dark with the generator not running too. (TIC) :deadhorse:
This was my theory also, one thing that I am sure most would agree on would be loaded vs. no load is good for engine life.

I guess the question is if I was going to bed with no air conditioning load, what would be a decent load for the night? maybe 20% or 2000w or so? maybe one 1500w heater running? These days with all LED lights and just a few fans running I am not using much of the capacity if the oven, AC or other high load items are off.
 
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