White smoke at idle and driving.

[flyn2low737]

If the motor runs better without fuel to that cylinder, it seems like it might be a problem with the cylinder rather than the injector. Did the smoking stop when you cracked the line? I’d consider swapping injectors with another cylinder and repeat the test. If the problem moves to the other cylinder, good chance it’s the injector. It it stays with the original cylinder, it’s something unrelated to the injector.

Smoke did not stop when I cracked the line. I may very well have more issues with other injectors.

 

[Mogman]

The reason it runs worse with fuel is because the injector is leaking fuel into the cylinder, that cylinder fires prematurely (long before TDC) causing the engine to run rougher and the piston to knock as it is actually trying to stop the piston, it also runs "rich" because the fuel being leaked into the cylinder is not being atomized as it would through a good injector that was reaching firing pressure so the large droplets of fuel do not burn well and are expelled through the exhaust.
That is how a diesel fuel injector (nozzle) fails, I have never seen one fail where it would not flow fuel, if that happened something would break is the IP has no "dead head" relief valve and something would have to give.

 

[Mogman]

Smoke did not stop when I cracked the line. I may very well have more issues with other injectors.

Pop in a new injector, you have allot of raw fuel in the manifolds/exhaust system it is not going to clear up right away.

 

[MarkM]

I keep two new spare injectors just in case I have a problem with injectors.

Mark

 

[flyn2low737]

If the unburnt fuel is bad enough, start it when cold….turn it off within a few seconds of starting, start pulling glow plugs till you find the wet one, there is your problem cylinder….done it may times

Alright found the wet glow plug. Can I make the assumption that injector is bad? Or could it still be a head problem? I appreciate the responses. I apologize if some of my questions seem redundant. When I log in sometimes y’all’s replies don’t show up until I post something.

 

[flyn2low737]

M

The reason it runs worse with fuel is because the injector is leaking fuel into the cylinder, that cylinder fires prematurely (long before TDC) causing the engine to run rougher and the piston to knock as it is actually trying to stop the piston, it also runs "rich" because the fuel being leaked into the cylinder is not being atomized as it would through a good injector that was reaching firing pressure so the large droplets of fuel do not burn well and are expelled through the exhaust.
That is how a diesel fuel injector (nozzle) fails, I have never seen one fail where it would not flow fuel, if that happened something would break is the IP has no "dead head" relief valve and something would have to give.

Makes perfect sense. These injectors are a little different than the HEUI injection system I am familiar with. Would the leaking injector also explain why I had what looked like smoke coming out the loose intake gasket?

 

[Mogman]

Alright found the wet glow plug. Can I make the assumption that injector is bad? Or could it still be a head problem?

Allot cheaper to try an injector.
You me and the man on the moon can make all the assumptions we want but you will not know what the problem is until you ether discover by substitution or testing, nobody can jump in here and say if it is an injector or not, was this the same cylinder you were getting the knock/rough running from?
Do you have a local diesel injection shop?
EDIT, if you are in Houston there are a ton of injection shops, call them until you find one that can check/repair your injector, 90% of the time it is just something caught in the nozzle.

 

[flyn2low737]

Allot cheaper to try an injector.
You me and the man on the moon can make all the assumptions we want but you will not know what the problem is until you ether discover by substitution or testing, nobody can jump in here and say if it is an injector or not, was this the same cylinder you were getting the knock/rough running from?
Do you have a local diesel injection shop?
EDIT, if you are in Houston there are a ton of injection shops, call them until you find one that can check/repair your injector, 90% of the time it is just something caught in the nozzle.

Yes it is the same cylinder. I will call around and probably order a new one just to have on hand. I’m a little north of Houston is you know of one that is reputable. Would you recommend pulling all 8 and having them rebuilt or just leave well enough and fiddle with the one? Wondering how many hours are on these things.

 

[Mogman]

Yes it is the same cylinder. I will call around and probably order a new one just to have on hand. I’m a little north of Houston is you know of one that is reputable. Would you recommend pulling all 8 and having them rebuilt or just leave well enough and fiddle with the one? Wondering how many hours are on these things.

Probably not enough, sitting for decades is usually the problem, I would start with the one you suspect first.
In all the years I have worked on Roosamaster injection systems (started in 1978 with the 5.7L "Oldsmobile" series engine) I have never seen more than one bad injector at a time.
Now I am not saying it could not happen, if a system was contaminated enough I could see more than one fail, I just have not had that experience.
Sorry, I moved out of Baytown almost 25 years go so I cannot advise.

 

[Coug]

As mentioned before, you can swap it with one from a different cylinder to see if the problem moves with the injector, or stays in the cylinder.

EDIT: Just to clarify, my intention with this comment is only to run the engine the bare minimum amount of time to determine if it is in fact the injector or some other fault in the cylinder. Combining this with the post earlier from RWH about running it for only a couple seconds from cold and seeing if there is unburned fuel on the glow plug.

 

[flyn2low737]

I will get an injector on its way and go ahead and install new glow plugs. I will report back. Thank you all again for your help.

 

[Mogman]

If the original glow plugs test OK (near zero ohms) and are not swollen I would re-use them, much of what is "out there" is junk today.
If bound and determined do allot of research and try to get the best ones you can, there are threads claiming even some from reputable dealers have issues.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Alright found the wet glow plug. Can I make the assumption that injector is bad? Or could it still be a head problem? I appreciate the responses. I apologize if some of my questions seem redundant. When I log in sometimes y’all’s replies don’t show up until I post something.

are you getting a knocking noise while running?
Generally a bad injector will produce a knocking as well as white smoke.
I would roll that injector to the other side of the motor and see if the problem moves, if it does not?
Your issue is low compression and the cylinder isn’t producing enough compression to have complete combustion. All that excess fuel is washing down that cylinder wall so be careful with that as well.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

If the original glow plugs test OK (near zero ohms) and are not swollen I would re-use them, much of what is "out there" is junk today.
If bound and determined do allot of research and try to get the best ones you can, there are threads claiming even some from reputable dealers have issues.

I buy 100 plugs about every 4-6 weeks, never had an issue with a single one, I buy only OEM from MAC

 

[flyn2low737]

are you getting a knocking noise while running?
Generally a bad injector will produce a knocking as well as white smoke.
I would roll that injector to the other side of the motor and see if the problem moves, if it does not?
Your issue is low compression and the cylinder isn’t producing enough compression to have complete combustion. All that excess fuel is washing down that cylinder wall so be careful with that as well.

Yes I was getting a knocking noise. I plan on an oil change as well in short order.

 

[firemedicz]

Following this thread because I have one doing the same thing. I got a non runner 1197A2 from Georgia with a motor full of rainwater, found a replacement motor and did the swap. The new (used) ran on the test stand before install, has 440-450 compression and got a rebuilt injection pump/ new injectors. Smokes unburned fuel like yours. IP rebuilders says it sounds like the IP timing (retarded), I have a dynamic timing tool coming to test their theory. Hope you find resolution.

 

[Mogman]

Following this thread because I have one doing the same thing. I got a non runner 1197A2 from Georgia with a motor full of rainwater, found a replacement motor and did the swap. The new (used) ran on the test stand before install, has 440-450 compression and got a rebuilt injection pump/ new injectors. Smokes unburned fuel like yours. IP rebuilders says it sounds like the IP timing (retarded), I have a dynamic timing tool coming to test their theory. Hope you find resolution.

Welcome to the SS forum!

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Following this thread because I have one doing the same thing. I got a non runner 1197A2 from Georgia with a motor full of rainwater, found a replacement motor and did the swap. The new (used) ran on the test stand before install, has 440-450 compression and got a rebuilt injection pump/ new injectors. Smokes unburned fuel like yours. IP rebuilders says it sounds like the IP timing (retarded), I have a dynamic timing tool coming to test their theory. Hope you find resolution.

who rebuilt the injection pump?

 

[firemedicz]

who rebuilt the injection pump?

Moose Diesel out of SC

 

[flyn2low737]

Injector has been replaced. The smoking isn’t nearly as bad but it’s still there at idle and noticeable above idle but not as bad as before. Next I figure compression testing is in order. I am thinking maybe the stuck injector damaged that cylinder.