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Will a deuce run on refrigeration oil?

S

stumps

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Refrigeration oils are by need highly soluble in the refrigerant. That solubility is how the oil is cooled, and how the stray oil is prevented from clogging up the system. The refrigeration oil will retain a certain amount of the freon even at normal atmospheric pressure and temperature. It will retain it indefinitely.

Burning freon in air makes phosgene nerve gas. I don't know if any phosgene created in the MF engine would just be burned up in the engine, or if it would be emitted from the exhaust. I don't know if the concentrations would be significant enough to matter. I do know that I would want to know before I set about burning it where I might come into contact with the exhaust fumes.

If the oil is new, it would be a great fuel. It is nice and thin, and very, very clean and dry.

-Chuck
 
drgreg

drgreg

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stumps said:
Refrigeration oils are by need highly soluble in the refrigerant. That solubility is how the oil is cooled, and how the stray oil is prevented from clogging up the system. The refrigeration oil will retain a certain amount of the freon even at normal atmospheric pressure and temperature. It will retain it indefinitely.

Burning freon in air makes phosgene nerve gas. I don't know if any phosgene created in the MF engine would just be burned up in the engine, or if it would be emitted from the exhaust. I don't know if the concentrations would be significant enough to matter. I do know that I would want to know before I set about burning it where I might come into contact with the exhaust fumes.

If the oil is new, it would be a great fuel. It is nice and thin, and very, very clean and dry.

-Chuck
Click to expand...
The oil will degas when it hits atmosphere. And even if there is a minute amount of refrigerant remaining, it will be much less dangerous than the carcinogens and toxins in waste motor oil, from an internal combustion engine.
 
FireFighterHill

FireFighterHill

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I just talked to my brother who is a Journey Pipe fitter who specializes in refrigeration systems. According to him unless you drain the oil from a running system straight into a fire there is little to no chance of the oil retaining refrigerant. If you want to be overly cautious you can let the refrigerant oil sit in a bucket for a few days.
 
S

stumps

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drgreg said:
The oil will degas when it hits atmosphere. And even if there is a minute amount of refrigerant remaining, it will be much less dangerous than the carcinogens and toxins in waste motor oil, from an internal combustion engine.
Click to expand...
I know it will degas to a certain degree. However, a long, long time ago, I had a large quantity of hydraulic oil that had been thoroughly mixed with water. It was a very nice mayonnaise color. It had no rust, so I wanted to see if I could remove the water. I put some of the oil in a thick glass jug, and pulled a heavy vacuum. For a while, the oil boiled as the water was removed, but it eventually reached a point where the vacuum could no longer pull the moisture from the oil, without some other stimulus. Heat, worked, shaking worked, even putting some window screen in the jar worked.

Apples and oranges, you may say, but both situations are exactly the same. The vapor pressure of freon, at room temperature, is well above atmospheric pressure... and the vapor pressure of water, at room temperature, is well above a good vacuum's "pressure".

The $30,000 question is: Is there enough phosgene left after burning in an MF engine, to matter? I don't know that answer. I have seen the result of whiffing the small amount of phosgene that came from a propane fired leak detector that sucked up a bit of freon from a leaking auto airconditioner system.... And we all have seen the posting from the guy that cleaned some steel with brake cleaner, and then caught a snoot full of phosgene when he welded that steel.

Caution, and some further research, may be in order.

-Chuck
 
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stumps

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FireFighterHill said:
I just talked to my brother who is a Journey Pipe fitter who specializes in refrigeration systems. According to him unless you drain the oil from a running system straight into a fire there is little to no chance of the oil retaining refrigerant. If you want to be overly cautious you can let the refrigerant oil sit in a bucket for a few days.
Click to expand...
Given that refrigerant oil with freon dissolved looks just like refrigerant oil without freon dissolved, how did he arrive at his conclusion? Did he do any testing, read some research, or is this just his opinion?

I can't, and won't, say he is right, or wrong. I just don't know. I do know that if he is wrong, someone could be in a world of hurt.

I suppose the easiest way to tell would be to put some waste refrigeration oil in a jar, and warm it while holding a freon detector's wand over the jar. I would bet the freon detector goes nuts!

Send me a small jar of the oil, and I'd be happy to do the test.

-Chuck
 
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