Alas we must say goodbye to you Multifuel.

[Flea]

I think the 466 would make a great engine for the truck; 600-700 lbs is a good torque range. I agree with the mechanical lockers notion... with lockouts on the front axle, you won't need a selectable locker up there; I'd just put a locker in the front-rear and leave the rearmost open, then put a lockout on one side of the front-rear.

What about sticking with the stock transmission, but adding an auxiliary?

Could be an interesting project... keep us posted.

On a side note, I'm in Louisville this week.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

No way... Where in Louisville you want to see the truck?

 

[Flea]

I'm staying off of Hurstbourne Parkway for the next couple days -- visiting a client in Hardinsburg tomorrow and working the general area this week. Perhaps we could meet for lunch or something in the next couple days... If not, I am in the area around once every month or two.

 

[ATC]

There's a brand new Cat C-12 on GL right now

But seriously, I would probably go with the 5.9L if it were me. If you need parts, any autoparts store should have it. It will have more HP and TQ with simple mods and will be quite a bit lighter than the DT or LDT. I don't even own a Deuce yet, but I am already planning on this swap in the near future when the LDT doesn't cut it anymore...

 

[hot rod deuce]

The probelm I find with any thing over a 5.9 and around 200 HP is- the front of the truck. It takes so much radiator to cool a bigger motor. take a look, its narrow. maybe a 5 ton radiator. I kinda plan to redo the whole thing on the crew cab but there is just not enough room. After coolers are a trick because it is only around 30" wide up there. Take a look at an A3, the headlights are on the fender to make a little more room. They use a 3116. 3000, Series 1.1 liter per, and 6 holes. Thues the mumbers 3116. Its a fair amount smaller than the 466 or C cummins. Any of these have the power to eat the truck.

A 5.9 will twist the drive shafts and T case to bits. If you put lockers in it, big tires and add power the axles become toothpics.

The littler of the two drive shafts are only 1410 and the axles are the same size as a 14 bolt GM 1 ton axles EXCEPT they have 10 spine, much weaker than the GM 30 or so spline.

If you want a nice truck to drive and use, go with the 5.9. If you wana do some thing like a 454 in a jeep, go with the other options.

Remember, if Gm, Freightliner, Kenworth or Pete made a truck with this rated capacity it would have a 5.9, Duramax, or powerstroke.

 

[hot rod deuce]

Remeber, if you go with an air to water intercooler you will need a bigger radiator to off set it.

 

[Andydieselpower]

Personally I would stay far way from the Cat. The 3116 Cat in my engine opinion not fair well when put in applications where it's stressed even lightly. Pull up truckpaper.com and see how many 3116/3126/C7's are rebuilt that only have 150k or less on the truck. The 3116 doesn't start well in the winter in my experience with the ones we use to have in Sterling Acterras. Also it has the overly complex no added value HEUI injection system. The Cat 3116's don't have very good fuel consumption rates for the low power output they provide where the DT466 is fairly good. I can give you plenty of references in the field of guys who will never go back to a small Cat engine. Let me know if you would like to talk to some as I'll be glad to provide you will large fleet mgr's phone numbers.

The mechanical especially the inline pump DT466's would run for a long time. I have a few customers with 466's with over 30k hours without a rebuild.

As hot rod duece mentioned most trucks with the GVW of an M35 would have an ISB, 444 IHC, etc. The 5.9 Cummins starts well in the winter, gets good MPG, has a proven high mileage/hour lifespan rating and sounds MUCH better than a Cat 3116 under load and at idle.


Andy

 

[Hammer]

IF (and it already sounds out anyways) you get a cat, the 3116 will last a lot longer if it is under the 200 hp level. Above 240 hp and they are disposable engines. They just can't take that kind of power for long.
I have two in my tow trucks. Not the best option, but they work ok. They don't start well in the cold, where as my 6BT starts as easy as a gas engine.
Choice between cat and IH? IH hands down for this app.

I understand wanting a bigger engine, and having the bigger numbers. But the truck really isn't up to it unless you also plan on hopping up the rest of the drive train. Alloy axle shafts will start adding up with three axles! But those 2" 47 spline puppies sure would do the trick

If you go with an earlier 5.9 6BT you can get away with a LOT less intercooler. Early dodges ran hot without them, so it can be done.

I know I am going against the grain, but I actually LIKE the 24v Cummins. I like being able to look at a digital readout, and adjust my power levels on the fly, while driving down the road. Being able to adjust the power levels up to a 120+ hp gain is really nice! Plus being able to tone it down for mpg, or if your running hot on a long grade with a heavy load.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

The probelm I find with any thing over a 5.9 and around 200 HP is- the front of the truck. It takes so much radiator to cool a bigger motor. take a look, its narrow. maybe a 5 ton radiator. I kinda plan to redo the whole thing on the crew cab but there is just not enough room. After coolers are a trick because it is only around 30" wide up there. Take a look at an A3, the headlights are on the fender to make a little more room. They use a 3116. 3000, Series 1.1 liter per, and 6 holes. Thues the mumbers 3116. Its a fair amount smaller than the 466 or C cummins. Any of these have the power to eat the truck.

A 5.9 will twist the drive shafts and T case to bits. If you put lockers in it, big tires and add power the axles become toothpics.

The littler of the two drive shafts are only 1410 and the axles are the same size as a 14 bolt GM 1 ton axles EXCEPT they have 10 spine, much weaker than the GM 30 or so spline.

If you want a nice truck to drive and use, go with the 5.9. If you wana do some thing like a 454 in a jeep, go with the other options.

Remember, if Gm, Freightliner, Kenworth or Pete made a truck with this rated capacity it would have a 5.9, Duramax, or powerstroke.

I would like to change out the transfer case as well. I thinking about an older Oshkosh 55000 Model Transfer Case with either the Dorr-Miller Lock Up or the Bevel-Gear and Air-Lock up arrangement. This should handle the torque nicely, after all they use them on the P-Series trucks with engines rated 1500ft-lbs of torque. In our case we are only talking about 660ft-lbs of torque. This shouldn't be big problem for the transfer case to handle. As for the axles well I planned on increasing the shafts strength in them as well. The Drive Shafts would also be upgraded. In short when I lock up the drive train from the diffs to the transfer case I want to make sure it will handle the 200hp+ and the torque as well.

As for the intercooler I was think of using two actually one to cool the charge itself an the other to cool the water used in actual intercooler. This way I coudl maintain a radiator about the same size as the original.

I was also thinking about putting a transmission cooler on the Fuller Six Speed as well. After all this truck is slow so airflow over the transmission isn't all that great. I would like to keep the gear oil operating at an optimal temperature for longer life and less wear both on and off the road.

I think it will all work out if I plan it correctly.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I'm staying off of Hurstbourne Parkway for the next couple days -- visiting a client in Hardinsburg tomorrow and working the general area this week. Perhaps we could meet for lunch or something in the next couple days... If not, I am in the area around once every month or two.

Friday is the only day I have free...

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I think I'm going to go with the IH 466 and Fuller Six Speed Gearbox mated to a new locking transfer case.

I want about 210-255hp and 560-660ft-lbs of torque with a top engine speed of 2600rpm. I know this means I might want to think about redoing the half-shafts in the axles too. I think I'll do that once I add the air-lockers to the diffs. In short when all said and done I want truck that has 100% positive traction when locked up.

 

[hot rod deuce]

There is a 7 speed fuller out there too that is nice. Might be worth a look. Im not sure on the TQ rating.

since you are looking for a heavy duty T-case already......

Ever thought of buying a 6x6 cement truck from richie brothers? They have on line auctions live. Its like bying from GL only much better. That is all the right parts to take big power. Some have newway air ride (Awsome on and off road) Most have an M11 cummins and auto. You could trade the motor and or tranny in on one of your choice some have 3306 cats. Some even have lockers, auto or air select. Just add the M35 sheet metal they both have strait frames.

I have seen nice ones sell for around 5k or less. That would probably be cheaper.

Just a thought. That was my plan because honesly, ive been here done this. its one thing after the next. There might even be some one (here is your que!) that could get you a conection on a used mixer truck minus the mixer. Unless its a really really good deal, then I get it

Dont forget the suspension, after you have tires and gears you will probably want to go faster on th highway. The factory stuff does good to about 60, then you might as well ride a hay rack.

 

[boomer]

Was it named Yorik?? (Alas, poor Yorik)

 

[madsam]

I would make sure what ever you are looking at fits under th hood. Some bigger engines don't fit.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Was it named Yorik?? (Alas, poor Yorik)

Yeah I was thinking of Hamlet when I wrote the post.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

There is a 7 speed fuller out there too that is nice. Might be worth a look. Im not sure on the TQ rating.

since you are looking for a heavy duty T-case already......

Ever thought of buying a 6x6 cement truck from richie brothers? They have on line auctions live. Its like bying from GL only much better. That is all the right parts to take big power. Some have newway air ride (Awsome on and off road) Most have an M11 cummins and auto. You could trade the motor and or tranny in on one of your choice some have 3306 cats. Some even have lockers, auto or air select. Just add the M35 sheet metal they both have strait frames.

I have seen nice ones sell for around 5k or less. That would probably be cheaper.

Just a thought. That was my plan because honesly, ive been here done this. its one thing after the next. There might even be some one (here is your que!) that could get you a conection on a used mixer truck minus the mixer. Unless its a really really good deal, then I get it

Dont forget the suspension, after you have tires and gears you will probably want to go faster on th highway. The factory stuff does good to about 60, then you might as well ride a hay rack.

I'm looking to top out about 65mph and cruise at 55mph so I actually want to put extra torsion bars on the rear tandems so I maintain as much contact with the road as possible.

I knew they made a 7 spd at one point but I cannot seem to find any information on it.

I think the DT466 is the perfect engine because the length, weight, height, rpm range is almost identical to the original engine. In fact I save almost 200lbs in weight weight with the conversion that I use for a new intercooler , transmission cooler, oil cooler and perhaps even water-injection unit. I really really water injection units.

As for the cooling requirements of the DT-466 it say it only uses 13.5quarts of coolant that's less than half of the present engine. But I think what I'm going to do is run a thermostatic controller for an electric fan. So I'll up the amperage on the alternator from 60amps to 145amps so have enough juice to run the fans pretty much anytime the engine hits 210 degrees. I figure with a more aggressive cooling system I should be able to maintain the same look as the M35A2. Another issue I have is I want to remove the oil cooler from engine coolant system. That way I don't add that extra heat to the coolant as well. So I figure I out the oil cooler behind the radiator and it will work perfectly.

 

[nevrenufhp]

I'll throw in a few cents worth. The 466 has the most power potential for axle snapping fun. Word of caution of using the electronic engines; the throttle response is slow! My work truck is a 300hp 466E, and it takes a good 3-5 sec. to get the turbo spooled up. Doesn't sound like much, until you are getting stuck in mud. Do yourself a favor, and stay mechanical. The good ones are 86 or newer. The optimal is a 93-97, which has the very tunable P-pump like on the Cummins 5.9. Turn up the power, and torque numbers go up really fast, so keep that in mind. Figure the torque is about 2.5 times the hp. On a Cummins 6BT or DT360 it's about 2X.

I vote DT360, DT466, or Cummins 5.9




str8 piped 466, pretty much how a Deuce would sound.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILQQMBMJygQ[/media]
I did the mods to that 466.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I'll throw in a few cents worth. The 466 has the most power potential for axle snapping fun. Word of caution of using the electronic engines; the throttle response is slow! My work truck is a 300hp 466E, and it takes a good 3-5 sec. to get the turbo spooled up. Doesn't sound like much, until you are getting stuck in mud. Do yourself a favor, and stay mechanical. The good ones are 86 or newer. The optimal is a 93-97, which has the very tunable P-pump like on the Cummins 5.9. Turn up the power, and torque numbers go up really fast, so keep that in mind. Figure the torque is about 2.5 times the hp. On a Cummins 6BT or DT360 it's about 2X.

I vote DT360, DT466, or Cummins 5.9




str8 piped 466, pretty much how a Deuce would sound.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILQQMBMJygQ[/media]I did the mods to that 466.

Well I think the mechanical is better for a couple or reasons: electrical systems being easier to adapt, less space required for the mounting of electronic hardware, simplicity. So my first choice is the DT466 210hp mechanical injected engines in the same year range you're talking about. I want to build it, new cam for higher rpm say 2800rpm max and flatter torque curve, balance and blue-print the engine, water-injection and few other goodies.. I want the engine to develop about 300-320hp at 2800rpm and have about 660-800ft-lbs of torque between 1300-1800rpm where I think most of my driving will done. Then if drops off to about 450-500 ftlbs at 2800rpm it's not that big of deal, the truck should still have enough snot to accelerate and pull a load successfully with .78 overdrive gear at that speed when it is coupled to the 6.72-1 rear ends.

But thanks for the advice.

 

[Hammer]

Basically just BUY a blasted 6BT, it will either have that power already, or you can get it with chump change and a few minutes of work.
No need to blue-print, balance, or any other BS you keep mentioning for the 466.
Oh, and they come STOCK with a 3200 rpm redline, and can run at 2750 rpm all day long (the stationary ones do exactly this).

You keep talking about no money, but mentioned this, stuff, that takes a LOT of money.
AND, you are changing the reliability of the motor. Whereas a stock 6bt has the power, rpm (and a lot more if you want it), with all the reliability you could want.

And yes Barrman, I am a SUCKER for getting back into this blasted thread!

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Basically just BUY a blasted 6BT, it will either have that power already, or you can get it with chump change and a few minutes of work.
No need to blue-print, balance, or any other BS you keep mentioning for the 466.
Oh, and they come STOCK with a 3200 rpm redline, and can run at 2750 rpm all day long (the stationary ones do exactly this).

You keep talking about no money, but mentioned this, stuff, that takes a LOT of money.
AND, you are changing the reliability of the motor. Whereas a stock 6bt has the power, rpm (and a lot more if you want it), with all the reliability you could want.

And yes Barrman, I am a SUCKER for getting back into this blasted thread!

Well all the specs say the governed speed of the DT-466 series engines is 2600rpm. And blur-printing and balancing engine will improve the engine immeasurably in performance. Everything I want to do works but as you rightly pointed out costs cash, cash I don't have since my education is my primary goal right now. Perhaps in 3 years I'll cash and space to work on the truck.