Engine knocking LDS-456

Oerthedge21

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She crossed the numbers on the bodies and they matched up to another AMBAC PN which I found eastern surplus to have in stock for 30$ apiece. I'll post up the PN on the tips that didn't fit when I get home
 

Oerthedge21

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Forgot to post the numbers. The NSN on the box is 2910-01-214-2643 and the AMBAC PN on them is NBM770138. The PN on the ones I had to order were ADB-35S-130-7. They also crossed over to a Robert Bosch #, which is 0-433-270-056 or -106. The AMBAC ones I ordered starting with ADB look different than the NBM ones, more similair to the old ones that came out of my truck. I have a full set and a few spares of brand new, in the box NBM injectors if anyone is interested
 

Oerthedge21

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A question I ran into while searching around as I wait for the injectors. I've seen a lot of debate the more I look about using synthetic vs conventional oil to break in an engine. Some people say it makes no difference, others are saying using synthetic wont allow the engine to wear in correctly and cause loss of performance and oil consumption. Is that true with the multifuels? Will it care at all, I put synthetic in it along with a zddp additive after the rebuild, should I drain all that out before I run it? Or will his engine, being what it is, not really care much about the oil type and what's in, just as long as I follow proper diesel break in procedure?
 

cattlerepairman

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I researched this question two years ago and while I do not remember all the details, it led me to buy John Deere break in oil and run the engine for 500 or so km on that, followed by oil and filter change.

I understand that part of the process is a deliberate brief breaking of the oil film to allow ring to liner contact for shaping the ring, usually at high rpm only. If I recall they wanted the engine to see high rpm on occasion at operating temp, while under heavy load.

I drove around with 3t of gravel in the bed.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
 
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davidb56

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synthetic is bad for cam/flat tappet break in and is not recommended. But since you just did the piston/sleeves/bearings, as long as you used plenty of assembly lube such as Lucas or clevite etc, and have added enough zddp, you should be ok. If it worries you, drain it and save the oil for other vehicles. Im in the middle of a 460 Ford rebuild as we speak, and I purchased 5 quarts of Lucas break-in oil because of the new cam/lifters.
 

davidb56

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At Cattleman..you're correct. the cam/lifters need high rpm for about 30 minutes to break in properly. Idling a new cam at break in can possibly cause it to go flat. There are a few builder videos that state this common mistake. Synthetic oils were designed ( not primarily) also for roller cams, which have little break in needs. HP engines with dual valve springs and flat tappets, should have the inner spring removed to lower the pressure on the cam/lifters during initial break in, then re installed.....PITA.
 

Oerthedge21

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Correct, I did pistons and liners, as well as rod bearings. Everything else is original. I assembled everything with Lucas assembly lube, and added a proportionate amount of zddp additive as well. What I'd seen is that the conventional oil is preferred for break in of any kind since it doesn't have the friction modifiers and such, allowing the rings and bearings to better wear into each other. However, all I know is what I've read since as I've stated, I've never rebuilt a big engine like this, only small 2 strokes and such whih have a totally different break in procedure.
 

rustystud

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Both "cattlerepairman" and "David" are correct. You need a oil that is good enough to lubricate but allow some wear so the rings can "seat in" to the liners. Then drain and replace all filters and go with a good synthetic. I use either "Rotella 6" or "Dello" synthetic diesel engine oil in mine.
 

Oerthedge21

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IMG_20191017_151145829.jpgIMG_20191017_154125203.jpgIMG_20191017_163034467.jpg
https://youtu.be/eoUzyUq6O2w

Got the injectors back yesterday, out them in today. Loaded the truck up with crap metal for some weight. Let the loft pump run for a minute while I cranked t with the shut-off pulled to get some oil circulated. Started pretty well, ran pretty rough for the first 10 seconds or so, but then it cleared up. No more knock....yet. Took it for a 20 minute test ride, laid into it here and there and tried my best to make the engine work for t to make sure the rings seat and the cylinders don't glaze. I will say, the 2 hole tips definitely cleaned up the exhaust, but the now correctly calibrated injectors and corrected fuel rate robbed me of a noticable bit of power. Still moved along pretty well, but I do miss the nut this truck had before. After cool down and shutdown, no mixing of fluids and no leaks, everything is still full. Gonna take t out a while longer tomorrow after work, I'll let you know how it goes. Any tips for the break in to make sure it goes well, anythig I should be listening/feeling for as well?
 

Menaces Nemesis

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Thank you so much for starting this thread, and keeping us up to date with your progress. Congrats on your first run, and I hope you don't have to re-visit anything you've corrected here for many, many years!:)
 

davidb56

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@ Oerthedgde21... Do you have a pyrometer set up yet for your EGT? The engine will be tight for a while, and you may need some fuel adjustment using your EGT after your break in period. I have to turn mine down a bit tomorrow as I have been pulling some steep logging roads with loads of wood.
 

cattlerepairman

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Glad to see that you have it back together and she seems to be running as she should. The power issue you can take care of with the pyro and setting the fuel accordingly. Mine is not at all turned up to the edge of sanity and it makes more than enough ooomph!
 

Oerthedge21

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For running during break in, i have it loaded up with scrap, I'm gonna throw some concrete blocks on there too. Now, should I be going slow on the road to keep rpms low, or do I want to rev it up more while it's loaded? I was taking it somewhat easy yesterday, just to make sure nothing was gonna fly out. For the test of the period though, I'd want to be up in the rpms with the load in it right? Since for TM spec's break in would be full load on the dyno for a while, I'd want to replicate that right, run it fast and hard to get the rings sealed?
 

royalflush55

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I use 10 weight non detergent oil with the zddp additive for the initial 30 minute cam and lifter break in period at a steady moderate rpm. I then drain oil and change filter and put in John Deere break in oil and run it for 5000 miles or 100 hours depending on the application. This filter change gets any contaminants out of the system too. During this break in time vary the load put on your engine in the first 1000 miles at times. Never run it at maximum rpm's during this time either.

After this 5000 mile break in you can put in your oil of choice. You are now set to use as intended and change oil as you wish. I have had good results with this method on several engines.
 

davidb56

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For running during break in, i have it loaded up with scrap, I'm gonna throw some concrete blocks on there too. Now, should I be going slow on the road to keep rpms low, or do I want to rev it up more while it's loaded? I was taking it somewhat easy yesterday, just to make sure nothing was gonna fly out. For the test of the period though, I'd want to be up in the rpms with the load in it right? Since for TM spec's break in would be full load on the dyno for a while, I'd want to replicate that right, run it fast and hard to get the rings sealed?
On a stock gas engine, the initial break-in is 30 minutes @ around 2500 rpms, so I'd guess the diesel would be at around 1700 rpms. You can look it up, but you'd get 20 different opinions.
 

Oerthedge21

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Took it for another ride today. Aired up the tires which were all low. Tightened up a leaking hose from the water pump. No other leaks I found in my pre trip. While it warmed up I opened the bleeder on the heater core, and took a shower I didn't want. Coolant is still reading full. However, it only takes a few minutes if driving and the temp gauge just steadily climbs slowly until it's all the way to the end at 240. It begins to make a noticable ticking at idle when the gauge reads that high that t doesn't make otherwise. Opened the bleeder on the side of the block, I have coolant there. Pulled the pipe plug on the intake next to the temp sender, have coolant there. It doesn't seem to be holding in air anywhere. No coolant leaks when hot, no steaming overflow either. Held a piece of newspaper in front of the stack, no wetness or smell of coolant on it, no fluids mixing and no exhaust bubbles in the coolant at idle when cold, haven't checked when hot. About to go pick up an IR thermometer after I post this. Intake manifold certainly does not feel to be 240° as I can put my hand on it for several seconds before removing. Top of radiator is warm, bottom is ice cold after driving and gauge hitting 240. Pyro hit a high of about 1190, which is hits with absolutely no effort, as in as soon as I start getting into it to accelerate in any gear. Idles at about 400. Good oil pressure, good air. Idle seems to get a little wavery when gauge is reading 240°. I shut it down almost immediately, gave it maybe 20 seconds to idle as I touched things and listened. Hopefully the gauge is wrong but the way it's acting I thing it make not be. When I had the heads off I cleaned a lot of gunk and Sandy material out of the cooling passages. Gonna try flushing the system a few times. Oil isn't sparkly not does it smell of fuel so I think we're still good. I gotta bring my buckets of oil and coolant to the dump before I can drain whats in this thing. Any ideas or other things to check/look for would be great.
Also noticed the exhaust not is different, seems throatier with a very loud combustion note when accelerating, nit really sure how to explain, kinda wanna call it a banging/popping but that's not really accurate. It's rythmic and does not cause any hiccuping or feelable power loss.
 
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Oerthedge21

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Forgot to mention, o also see there is a lot of blowby from the slobber tube. Is this normal for an engine that hasn't broken in yet? If not then I may pull the heads and stuff again while I have the coolant drained and see if maybe the rings got spun when I put them in or if they're eating the liners or something stupid. Although I suppose before that I should do a compression test. I still have to make a testee out of my spare injector.
 

Oerthedge21

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I managed to get a compression test done before it got dark, or half of one anyway. I shot a little bit of atf down each cylinder and got a consistent 420-440 psi from #4,5,and 6. Tomorrow I'll pull #1,2,3 and see what they test at. It took about 10 seconds of cranking per try to get to 440 at which point it would build no more. The readings were a good but lower without putting a little atf in there to seal things first. I'll update on what I get for readings tomorrow
 
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