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flipping the center-sections in riveted wheels

jesusgatos

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As suggested, here's a new thread about flipping the center-section in riveted wheels. I'm only figuring it out as I go, so I'm not intending to make this any kind of 'how-to' post. But I know that others have done this, and I'm hoping that they'll post-up with tips, pictures, and any other helpful info. gringeltaube already posted a neat diagram with dimensions in another thread.
 
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jesusgatos

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I just finished blowing all the rivets out of the first two wheels. Still experimenting, and haven't got a great technique figured out yet. Did the first wheel from the outside-in, and the second wheel from the inside-out. Working from the inside-out makes it a lot easier to stay centered on the rivet-head and seems to leave a little bit smaller hole. Eight more wheels to go...
 

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jesusgatos

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Got two more cut out (cut out four total so far). Having a much easier time burning-out the rivets working from the outside-in. I'm not exactly a Jedi-Knight with a cutting torch though. Just doing the best I can. I think it's taking me a lot longer than it should, but they're coming apart pretty well.

Yeah, I'm going to mount my 11.00 Firestone T831 radials on these wheels. Flipped the back hubs, but didn't want to run it with such a narrow track-width. I'm a little bit concerned about the scrub radius, but this is the best compromise I can make right now.
 

number9

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Following this one as I have recently been intrigued with the T831's in the pics I have seen here. And my truck has a few riveted wheels on it from what I remember.

..........
 

gimpyrobb

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Don't know where my post went, how long per rim does it take to free the center? I'm sure there is a learning curve too.
 

jesusgatos

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Only got four and a half rims done before I ran out of gas. Went to exchange my tanks and they're all out of the size I wanted, so I wasn't able to finish. But now that I've got the hang of it, I think it's taking me about a 1/2hr per rim. Could have easily done all 10 today.

Once I've got all the center-sections cut out, I'm going to knock off the little bits of slag with a 4.5" angle grinder and then clean up the wheels (just where I'll be welding) with a wire wheel. Then I think I'll take one of the wheels off Mah Deuce and set up some kind of make-shift truing stand, so I can spin the wheels and tack-weld the center-sections into place. Remove the wheels for welding, then take them to get sand-blasted. Sound about right? Not trying to make any more work for myself than I need to, but want to do a good job.
 

number9

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So are you going to run these on the rear with the hubs flipped? If so, I'd imagine they'd be close to flush with the bed sides as the Canadian wheels are basically flat-faced and still seem to look like they are in under the bed sides a few inches. If you are running with hubs flipped, are you concerned about accelerated bearing wear?

I think the truck would look good with the stock wheels on the front and these on the back. If you are going to run the 11.00's I don't see the need to widen the front wheels out to a wider track width just to have all 6 wheels look the same. I know it's your truck, I'm just thinking out loud more than anything.

........
 

gimpyrobb

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I think it will bring the tires close to even with the edge of the front fenders. Prolly add a little sability to the 109 and look pretty good. I doubt there will be any MORE bearing wear than normal. Overall a good mod.
 

tm america

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Nice job so far. i would probably use the trailer as a trueing jig .You can spin the the wheels easier without turning the axles and spider gears.Also you will only have to jack up one tire that way.
Are the riveted wheels the same diameter all the way from bead to bead ?would it be possible to put the center wherever you wanted?An air chisel with a sharp bit makes quick work of rivet heads and then a punch bit on the air chisel is great for knocking the rest out of the hole.Plus it's cheaper than a torch
 

Trango

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You're probably doing a great job with the oxy torch, but I wanted to lend my opinion that one place a plasma cutter shines is cutting out rivets.

I know, not everyone has access to a plasma, but if you can lay your hands on one, it will allow you to make really nice clean and quick swipes of rivet heads.
 

jesusgatos

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So are you going to run these on the rear with the hubs flipped? If so, I'd imagine they'd be close to flush with the bed sides as the Canadian wheels are basically flat-faced and still seem to look like they are in under the bed sides a few inches. If you are running with hubs flipped, are you concerned about accelerated bearing wear?

I think the truck would look good with the stock wheels on the front and these on the back. If you are going to run the 11.00's I don't see the need to widen the front wheels out to a wider track width just to have all 6 wheels look the same. I know it's your truck, I'm just thinking out loud more than anything.

........
Yeah, I've flipped the hubs. I would really like to run Canadian beadlocked wheels, but they're esspensive and I don't like how far inboard they are under the truck. If I didn't care about keeping the front/rear track-width the same, I would just have left the back hubs set up for duals and only run the outer wheel/tire. I'm not concerned about wheel bearing wear. I'm a little bit concerned about kingpin bushing wear though. The scrub radius isn't going to be great, but after weighing all my options, I think this is the best compromise for me right now.
I think it will bring the tires close to even with the edge of the front fenders. Prolly add a little sability to the 109 and look pretty good. I doubt there will be any MORE bearing wear than normal. Overall a good mod.
I think the front tires might actually peek out from under the front fenders just a bit. Like I said, might end up a little wider than I want to be, but there's no middle-ground here. It's one or the other.

Nice job so far. i would probably use the trailer as a trueing jig .You can spin the the wheels easier without turning the axles and spider gears.Also you will only have to jack up one tire that way.
Are the riveted wheels the same diameter all the way from bead to bead ?would it be possible to put the center wherever you wanted?An air chisel with a sharp bit makes quick work of rivet heads and then a punch bit on the air chisel is great for knocking the rest out of the hole.Plus it's cheaper than a torch
That's a good idea about the using the trailer, but I don't have a 220V outlet over where my trailer is parked. It'll just be easier to jack-up one axle than to shuffle all the trucks and trailers around my yard.

Unfortunately, the rivet wheels are not the same ID from bead-to-bead. I was hoping that might be the case, but the part of the rim shell that the center-section is riveted to is raised slightly, so you can't really put the center-section anywhere else. It's either in or out (stock or flipped). But I was looking at it today, and I think I might be able to cut off part of the lip on the center-section (where the rivet-heads were) and then weld it on the very outside of that ridge on the shell. I think that might keep the wheels tucked in about 1-1.5" more per side. Going to have to play around with it to see what's going to work.

Thanks for the tip about the air chisel. I don't have one, but have been meaning to buy one for a while. Maybe this would be a good excuse. I've got enough wheels to do that I could try a few different techniques.
You're probably doing a great job with the oxy torch, but I wanted to lend my opinion that one place a plasma cutter shines is cutting out rivets.

I know, not everyone has access to a plasma, but if you can lay your hands on one, it will allow you to make really nice clean and quick swipes of rivet heads.
I hear yah, just don't have access to a plasma right now. Would be nice...
 

UpstateNYer

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If the holes are still round after cutting the rivits, you could bolt the center in with 4 or 5 bolts to align it for welding. This is what I did when I flipped one, after I got the one done and mounted I decided it was sticking out to far for a 395. I drilled the rivits on a drill press through so the holes were clean. I was able to get 4 holes to line up good and drilled a few in between. With a drill press it took me about 35 minutes to get the center out.
 

gringeltaube

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I think the front tires might actually peek out from under the front fenders just a bit. Like I said, might end up a little wider than I want to be, but there's no middle-ground here. It's one or the other.
I was curious about the final relative position, front wheels to fenders and rears to bed...
after welding the center to the outer edge of the rim, backspace would be reduced from original 10.5" down to 6". Not that bad...

G.
 

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jesusgatos

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That's exactly what I'm planning on doing, but I hadn't worked out all the dimensions yet. Got three more wheels to cut apart before I was going to worry about it, but now you've gone and done it for me. Thanks.

I'd like to calculate my scrub radius. Can't do much about it, but I'm curious. Do you happen to know what the distance from the center of the u-joint to the wheel-mounting surface is gringeltaube? What about the kingpin inclination angle? I tried pirate, but haven't gotten any responses yet.
 

ASTFU

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When I did mine I used a torch on the first one then I tried a 3/8 drill bit on the rivets from the outside drilled in around 3/8 of an inch then used a punch, it worked great the rivets came right out saved myself a lot of gas and with a sharp bit it was faster.
 

gringeltaube

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.....................................
........................................ Do you happen to know what the distance from the center of the u-joint to the wheel-mounting surface is gringeltaube? What about the kingpin inclination angle?........................

9.6" and 8º, respectively.
Scrub radius in your case should be around 2 3/4"

G.
 

dmetalmiki

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heavy going

WOW! you know...you can just save the gas and the hasle by drilling them rivits out with a 3/16 drill thro then reccess the thro hole with a 3/8 or 7/16 and drive e'm out with a punch. we did all ten inhalf a day! we reversed the centeres and welded them back in ( electric arc) and lo' fitted 1200x20s on the deuce. the fronts have a great wide (good looking) stance now as well. we ballanced / allingned the wheel with a metal strip rotating on the vehicle hub and rotated till =. I will see if I can find pics from our previouse post. here goes...(oh and we did the wrecker (M62 front stance by the same method)
 

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