FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

rtrask

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That is odd if I run a hot wire to the other pair of wires it activates the starter. I will have to take a closer look at it and repeat the experiment, maybe I got my wires crossed. :)
I finally got around to digging in and testing it a bit more, and did enough prep work so I can ask the question better and hopefully get better results.


I took the 2 pages of wiring diagrams from the Student manual on the 24 VOLT STARTING SYSTEM S.E.E and color coded the wires to make it easy to follow the discussion. Please see diagram below.

View attachment 767569


The red line (211) goes to the started switch from the started non repeat relay, In the diagram, and confirmed by manually tracing the wire it is plugged in to the 87a plug on the relay, which should mean default on. The dark blue wire (215) is connected to the 30 plug on the relay and has 24 volts on it when the key is turned on, and I have the clutch starter lock out depressed. If I bypass the relay and run a wire directly from the dark blue line to the switch the starter engages.


If I remove (342) the light blue line and plug in the relay the starter engages through red line, and the volt meter confirms 24 volts on the light blue line, so I think that the relay is OK (it is brand new too). So the real question is why does light blue have 24 volts on it?


Based on what the 87 plug of the relay being connected to yellow (281) and that wire connecting to the KBI cold start switch & Ambient Temperature Sensor, was that one or both of these components was bad which is why I wanted to know where the ambient temperature sensor is. After thinking about it further, that was probably a red herring. There are problems in the cold start system, the KBI switch seems suspect, and solenoid at the ether injector is frozen. Also why will it not start with the cold start switch?

I must have the light blue and possibly the purple line wired incorrectly, or perhaps there is an issue with the reverse polarity switch, ... IDK any suggestions are welcome.





 

rtrask

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I'm really tired, but isn't 87 normally "power out"? In other words, it is only carrying power when the relay is energized.
Correct, 87 is out when the relay is energized. 87a is out when the relay is not energized. Because the relay is energized it is sending the 24 volts that would normally go to the start button to the cold start set of circuits, the red line remains at 0. If I remove the light blue line then the red line is at 24 volts and the starter button works.
 

SeeNebraska

Member
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21
8
Location
Nebraska
the lubrication guide shows OE/HDO-10 as the lubricant for the power steering. So does that mean i should just run a 15w40 or can i run the same AW32 hydraulic fluid I'm running in the backhoe since that system also originally called out OE/HDO-10
 

Pinsandpitons

Member
130
12
18
Location
Central Washington
Since no one else has swung at this... If it were me and I was swapping fluid out, I would run the AW32 in it. It's a hydraulic system after all. The only reason (as I understand it) that OE is called for is the simplified logistics of using the same fluids for many things. I'm confident that OE would do no harm, but hydraulic oil has better anti-corrosion additives and tends to deal with water vapor a bit better. Also I have heard that regular motor oil (as we know it) has detergents that can screw up non filtered systems like air compressors, and such because the detergents keep gunk in suspension and abrading parts rather than getting filtered out (as with a filtered system) or sinking to the bottom (in unfiltered things). This info is worth every nickle that you paid for it.
 

GMJanz

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Location
North Stonington, CT
Hello - I am considering buying a SEE. Am interested in making New England contacts - I am in CT - near New London. I have about 8 acres - rough terrain, lets of rocks and trees. I'd use it mostly for land clearing projects - side hustle/gig. Not looking to generate any income with it. At the same time, I am expecting that it will take some cash input depending on how much the starting point needs. I am handy and at the same time, don't want to spend an excessive amount of time fixing break downs.

Purpose of my post is to possibly find folks to dialogue with so I can decide whether I want to go this route or a more traditional path - backhoe or tractor.

Thanks
 

rtrask

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Littleton, Colorado
I realize I may be stirring the pot, but I have no interest in getting the test box. Does anyone have any reason not to begin removing the STE/ICE-R related wires when I encounter them? I am starting with 21S and 21M which run from the starter to the big port in the cab.
 

The FLU farm

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Location
The actual midwest, NM.
Ron, only a lack of time has prevented me from ripping all that crap out.
I'm especially suspicious of the shunt by the batteries, which may be a problem source on my Winter SEE.

Then again, with the system intact there's a 50/50 chance that a rodent will gnaw on a useless wire rather than one that actually does something.
 

alpine44

Member
392
2
18
Location
Asheville, NC - Elkton, MD
I realize I may be stirring the pot, but I have no interest in getting the test box. Does anyone have any reason not to begin removing the STE/ICE-R related wires when I encounter them? I am starting with 21S and 21M which run from the starter to the big port in the cab.
The whole STE/ICE-R harness is easy to remove after tilting the cab. Makes the rest of the wiring and plumbing easier to troubleshoot if necessary.
 

rtrask

Active member
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Location
Littleton, Colorado
So far every one seems in agreement that getting rid of that crap is a step forward. I don't plan to focus strictly on removing it, but while I am working my way through my electrical woes if I trace something back to the STE/ICE-R, I will disconnect and if not too difficult drag it back to the source. I could probably just use wire cutters to remove, and ultimately that may be what I do, but for now I will not use the scorched earth approach.

By his comments, it looks like Alpine removed the whole thing, has anyone else taken the plunge.
 

Guyfang

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Burgkunstadt, Germany
It really looks like it was added on after the Mercedes factory built the base chassis so I sure would not worry about it.
This is very true. It's a add on. You can take it off. But you all are focused on only the negative side of the STE/ICE system. And let me state here, the STE/ICE was a failure throughout the military. For three reasons. Soldiers could not use it/ and lost any confidence what so ever in it. It was too complicated. And last but not least, the system never got off the ground before the military "ditched it". No effort was made to correct known faults, to expand its uses or to make it simpler to use.

OK. Now to the good points. Those pins in the C-plug all go to places that it might be handy to be able to check, without getting up, and moving around. Or opening something up. If you look at the points that the wires come from, you just might be surprised. I am not a CEE guy. Haven't looked at the wire Schmatices and checked those points out. But I have done so on equipment I do know well. Power generation. And there are more then several nice to be able to check voltages, available at my C1 plug. Now most of you don't work on the CEE everyday of your life. I did army power generation for about 28 years. Using that plug saved me a million miles, and often allowed me to work alone, insted of needing someone to go around on the other side to mesure voltage while I started the gen set. I also could use it to jump around several circuits, when they didn't work normally. So before you rip everything out, might want to look. And if it's not worth your time, then do it.
 
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