FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

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natrgatr

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Columbia City, IN
We’ve used ours for digging a 48’x 38’ x 10’ basement, deconstructing huge barns, skidding logs, transporting/loading many things. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I think $9500 is a good price with no major problems. Once you work the kinks out, maintenance is not bad.


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rtrask

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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18
Location
Littleton, Colorado
I finally got back after the SEE this weekend. I saw that the alcohol reservoir was empty, and refilled it. After running the SEE to get it warmed up I shut it down. I started hearing what sounded like the SEE was boiling over. I tracked it down to the alcohol reservoir. I suspect I have found my slow air leak, or at least one of them and from the sound of it, maybe not a slow leak. What do you all think is my best course forward? Is there a kit I can put into it, buy a replacement, or should I look for an alternative air drier?
 

The FLU farm

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Why worry about the alky injection in the first place? Your climate can't be that different from mine, right?

I haven't filled the reservoir on the Winter SEE for years now, and the Summer SEE doesn't even have a reservoir (after I stole it and put it on the Winter SEE). I don't think I've ever filled it on the HMMH, come to think of it.

Granted, I use the Summer SEE and the HMMH less than I do the Winter SEE in the winter, but I don't understand why functional but empty systems would be any different than a non existent one.

But it does sound like you have an air leak to tend to. Maybe just turning the valve off?
 

peakbagger

Member
503
7
18
Location
northern nh
I finally got back after the SEE this weekend. I saw that the alcohol reservoir was empty, and refilled it. After running the SEE to get it warmed up I shut it down. I started hearing what sounded like the SEE was boiling over. I tracked it down to the alcohol reservoir. I suspect I have found my slow air leak, or at least one of them and from the sound of it, maybe not a slow leak. What do you all think is my best course forward? Is there a kit I can put into it, buy a replacement, or should I look for an alternative air drier?
I still havent made the conversion to an air dryer but have all the major parts but have not spent the time to get all the adapter fittings for the piping. My newer 1300 series ex German military came stock with an air dryer but I think it still has an alcohol injector. My limited unstanding is in very cold conditions both may be needed. As long as the unit meets the pressure rating any alcohol injector can work on the system but the nice thing with the SEE design is its got a built in bypass valve for non freezing conditions. Atkinson & Vos sells alcohol injectors that sort of look like the SEE unit but not identical.

I have received feedback that a downside for installing an air dryer in place of alcohol injector is that the distance from the engine air compressor and the air dryer is far shorter than on the 1300. This could lead to exceeding the temperature rating of the desiccant media. I haven't checked if its an issue in my climate but I doubt it.

As to if you need to dry air it really depends on the temps you are working in and the weather conditions. I you follow the ops procedures and drain the air tanks after use and see water coming out, it means that there is water in the system that would have frozen overnight if you hand not drained it. My guess is the most likely spot for a freeze up is the air regulator valve. Its a low point on the system. It does blow off air on occasion so that will keep large volumes of water out of it. Once the air leaves the regulator its going to cool quickly and condense into liquid and end up in the air tanks. Once it starts freezing in the tanks I do not think its going to thaw on its own if the temps stay cold.
 
Last edited:

The FLU farm

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I have received feedback that a downside for installing an air dryer in place of alcohol injector is that the distance from the engine air compressor and the air dryer is far shorter than on the 1300. This could lead to exceeding the temperature rating of the desiccant media. I haven't checked if its an issue in my climate but I doubt it.
That's easy enough to work around, by running a longer feed line between the two.
 

peakbagger

Member
503
7
18
Location
northern nh
I looked at that, the key is not to make a bend that can possibly trap water upstream of the alcohol injector. I did not find a good way to do that. If I did end up with low point I would need to put a drain in it.
 

rtrask

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
214
18
18
Location
Littleton, Colorado
Why worry about the alky injection in the first place? Your climate can't be that different from mine, right?

I haven't filled the reservoir on the Winter SEE for years now, and the Summer SEE doesn't even have a reservoir (after I stole it and put it on the Winter SEE). I don't think I've ever filled it on the HMMH, come to think of it.

Granted, I use the Summer SEE and the HMMH less than I do the Winter SEE in the winter, but I don't understand why functional but empty systems would be any different than a non existent one.

But it does sound like you have an air leak to tend to. Maybe just turning the valve off?
Turning the valve off does not help, it still bubbles out through the reservoir. If I remove it entirely, that could solve the issue with the air leak. Depending on the expense of the alternatives that maybe the route I take, but it would likely require more work to get right, than it would take to just fix it.
 
Last edited:

Pinsandpitons

Member
115
2
18
Location
Central Washington
There seems to be a discussion going on and I don't want to hijack, but I'm working on a project and would like to know from FLUfarm at what rpm he thinks his snow thrower operates best. Both the thrower and the auger parts if possible. I'm guessing about 1700 rpm for the thrower and something like 250 rpm for the auger.
 

rtrask

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
214
18
18
Location
Littleton, Colorado
I still havent made the conversion to an air dryer but have all the major parts but have not spent the time to get all the adapter fittings for the piping. My newer 1300 series ex German military came stock with an air dryer but I think it still has an alcohol injector. My limited unstanding is in very cold conditions both may be needed. As long as the unit meets the pressure rating any alcohol injector can work on the system but the nice thing with the SEE design is its got a built in bypass valve for non freezing conditions. Atkinson & Vos sells alcohol injectors that sort of look like the SEE unit but not identical.

I have received feedback that a downside for installing an air dryer in place of alcohol injector is that the distance from the engine air compressor and the air dryer is far shorter than on the 1300. This could lead to exceeding the temperature rating of the desiccant media. I haven't checked if its an issue in my climate but I doubt it.

As to if you need to dry air it really depends on the temps you are working in and the weather conditions. I you follow the ops procedures and drain the air tanks after use and see water coming out, it means that there is water in the system that would have frozen overnight if you hand not drained it. My guess is the most likely spot for a freeze up is the air regulator valve. Its a low point on the system. It does blow off air on occasion so that will keep large volumes of water out of it. Once the air leaves the regulator its going to cool quickly and condense into liquid and end up in the air tanks. Once it starts freezing in the tanks I do not think its going to thaw on its own if the temps stay cold.
Thanks for the info, I knew you had an air dryer from old posts, but your last post on it was a long time ago so I assumed that you had installed it by now. Based on this statement "My limited understanding is in very cold conditions both may be needed" I guess I am less inclined to install an air dryer. I also live in the actual Midwest, and probably the reason the FLU farm gets away with no alcohol is that we have really low humidity especially in the winter. I saw that EI has a replacement alcohol injector for $211 which seems steep for what it is. I have not been able to find any kind of kit so that I could repair the one I have. I wonder if I could just find sufficient "O" rings to get it to seal properly? I think my next step is to disassemble it and use my calipers to look for replacement "O" rings to see if that will do the trick.

Thanks again for your help.
 

peakbagger

Member
503
7
18
Location
northern nh
Turning the valve off does not help, it still bubbles out through the reservoir. If I remove it entirely, that could solve the issue with the air leak. Depending on the expense of the alternatives that maybe the route I take, but it would likely require more work to get right, than it would take to just fix it.
I gutted mine and plugged it so it did not leak. It was full of grit from a broken reservoir.
 

The FLU farm

Active member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,634
17
38
Location
The actual midwest, NM.
There seems to be a discussion going on and I don't want to hijack, but I'm working on a project and would like to know from FLUfarm at what rpm he thinks his snow thrower operates best. Both the thrower and the auger parts if possible. I'm guessing about 1700 rpm for the thrower and something like 250 rpm for the auger.
Sorry, I don't have a clue what speeds the 'blower parts turn. I run the engine at about 2,000 to make the blower turn as fast as possible,
but the downside is, of course, that then the SEE moves faster, too.
 
Thanks for the info, I knew you had an air dryer from old posts, but your last post on it was a long time ago so I assumed that you had installed it by now. Based on this statement "My limited understanding is in very cold conditions both may be needed" I guess I am less inclined to install an air dryer. I also live in the actual Midwest, and probably the reason the FLU farm gets away with no alcohol is that we have really low humidity especially in the winter. I saw that EI has a replacement alcohol injector for $211 which seems steep for what it is. I have not been able to find any kind of kit so that I could repair the one I have. I wonder if I could just find sufficient "O" rings to get it to seal properly? I think my next step is to disassemble it and use my calipers to look for replacement "O" rings to see if that will do the trick.

Thanks again for your help.
I have seen rebuild kits for these, but I can't recall where. It's very possible it was on one of the European parts sites. Maybe try searching the part number together with "rebuild kit" for example. Google translate is your friend.

You could also take a chance and take it apart. You will no doubt need to clean a lot of grit out, but then you can either put it all back together, or take the wear items to your local auto parts store and roll the dice on finding replacements.

EDIT: Actually, I saw it at EI. Part # 0014303760 and $83. Not sure if it is correct to the FLU, but EI wouldn't sell you something that isn't for your vehicle. I suggest you give them a call.
 
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rtrask

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
214
18
18
Location
Littleton, Colorado
I have seen rebuild kits for these, but I can't recall where. It's very possible it was on one of the European parts sites. Maybe try searching the part number together with "rebuild kit" for example. Google translate is your friend.

You could also take a chance and take it apart. You will no doubt need to clean a lot of grit out, but then you can either put it all back together, or take the wear items to your local auto parts store and roll the dice on finding replacements.

EDIT: Actually, I saw it at EI. Part # 0014303760 and $83. Not sure if it is correct to the FLU, but EI wouldn't sell you something that isn't for your vehicle. I suggest you give them a call.
That is great, you have helped a lot. I found the kit using your part number it came right up. I had just given up, and was going to seal the air line from the venturi valve with a homemade gasket.
20200124_122036.jpg

I had searched for the part kit all over, with no luck. Closest I came was a company in turkey that went out of business in 2017.

I took it apart, and in the process broke one of the plastic rings that go on the piston.
20200124_122238.jpg

I actually think that all the "O" rings were OK, and that it was just dirt holding the valve open, but it was too late with the broken piston ring. The valve was the only part that was showing wear.

20200123_154906.jpg

The part number on the kit matches the part number for the kit specified in the parts TM (P/N I 86741). The only thing that I see is different is that there is an extra hole in the gasket pictured. The one that came off the SEE shows a circle of sealant at that location, but no hole. nor is there a port at that location.

Thanks Again.
 
Last edited:

Robin33ba07

Member
41
2
8
Location
Co. Meath ,Ireland
[https://www.troostwijkauctions.com/uk/tractor-wheeled/03-31242-34431-6145327/ for sale in Holland QUOTE="kombisutra, post: 1586470, member: 57800"]
Kermit gettin' some! That -looks- a little precarious there, but I'm sure you had that program down long before you attempted moving that heavy lathe. What's the poundage on that thing? 1000lbs? The lock-out doesn't sound that hard to make from your words, I've never seen an HMMH though.

Looks like I may have burned up the drum on the printer at work trying to print out the 1000 plus pages of the FLU419 -35 manual. Ooopsy! : )
[/QUOTE]
 

The FLU farm

Active member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,634
17
38
Location
The actual midwest, NM.
Went to run the snowblower for a bit today and learned something new about the SEE.

Apparently one could stall the engine if the PTO pump can't do its thing. Turns out there was some ice at the bottom of the blower, which made it feel like I was trying to start in 4th gear when it couldn't turn.
 
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