bones1
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Interesting Scooby. That would be tough working with my panel I would suspect.
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MEP-003A hook up question
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bones1
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Looks like most of the heavy stuff is on the generator side. Been a while since I looked.
Scoobyshep
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If all you need is an applied voltage to transfer, pretty easy. Other than that youd need a sense line to detect loss (and return) of utility
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for the 17k on that size tank, it really depends on how the tank is installed and how cold it gets where you are.
Propane turns to vapor inside the tank, then that vapor is what's drawn off to be burned. If the propane level is low or the temp is too low, then the propane might not be able to vaporize quickly enough to keep everything operating properly.
There are charts out there for LP tank vaporization rates at various temperatures.
1kw is approx 16k btus of energy, 1 gallon propane is approx 92k btus. 6kw power per gallon of propane burned. At full load (really you want to keep it around 80% or less) of about 15kw you'll be burning around 2.5 gallons of propane per hour. In reality it would be less because most heavy loads tend to cycle on and off as needed, but at best with a full (85% or so) tank you'd have around 100 hours of run time.
At that point the propane company has to come refill the tank before you can use the gen any more, but from the sounds of it unless it's a major disaster you won't be without power that often.
As for the size, a 17kw generator would be fine with this panel. Max load for this panel is 125 amps of 240V, which roughly comes to 30kw of power. (just verified at your link above, max gen size 30kw) so any air cooled home standby generator would work just fine.
The current generation of Generac standby generator requires at least 6 wires run to it, 3 for the transfer switch mechanism, 2 for the sensing leads, and one for the battery charge circuit.
You might have to get the regulator on the propane tank upgraded if you did this, by itself at full load you could draw over 250k BTUs per hour, many regulators are rated at that much, so if your stove or furnace were on you'd be overloading it. Usually not an issue for the same reason as the run time fuel use calculations, but something to keep in mind.
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Here is the comparison between the two gen types.
The Generac you'd hear run during it's test cycle every week/2 weeks/monthly (however you have it set up)
it would come on automatically when needed, transfer automatically, etc.
The fuel supply is much harder to refill in case of emergency.
Larger power output, and quieter operation.
lots of electronics built in that if anything fails you have to get the parts from generac or generac reseller.
While I've known units that have 4500 hours on them, it isn't as common. Most end up falling apart from age with at most a few hundred hours of run time, and you can usually expect them to last 10-15 years with basic care. Less if near salt water.
The MEP-003 runs off fuel you can buy at most fuel stations.
You have to manually operate everything (though if you want to spend the money anything is possible)
designed for prime power, so running for weeks or months on end with just oil changes and basic maintenance is not a big deal.
Parts are less common, have to find them on the internet, though some are available through local parts stores.
very very loud and no real way to quiet it down to reasonable levels.
Basically, if all you're really planning for is the occasional outage that might last a few days but no more than a week, you have lots of refrigerated/frozen food, or have some other reason why the power MUST be on right away even if nobody is home and you are commonly a long distance away, the Generac is a decent way to go. Not the best generators in the world, but a decent product for the price. Generac also throws in an extended warranty with new gen install several times a year, so waiting for one of them you can get a 5, 7, or 10 year extended parts, labor, and travel covered for repairs warranty (standard is 2 years full coverage, 5 years for major component parts only)
If you are expecting TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) or expect power to be off for weeks at a time, you're not worried about the fridge/freezers too much or you don't travel too far away from home, don't care about noise, and don't need everything automated, plus have a decent understanding of how it works, ability to read repair manuals, and willing to spend some money to stockpile some common failure parts plus maintenance items, then the MEP is for you.
The Generac you'd hear run during it's test cycle every week/2 weeks/monthly (however you have it set up)
it would come on automatically when needed, transfer automatically, etc.
The fuel supply is much harder to refill in case of emergency.
Larger power output, and quieter operation.
lots of electronics built in that if anything fails you have to get the parts from generac or generac reseller.
While I've known units that have 4500 hours on them, it isn't as common. Most end up falling apart from age with at most a few hundred hours of run time, and you can usually expect them to last 10-15 years with basic care. Less if near salt water.
The MEP-003 runs off fuel you can buy at most fuel stations.
You have to manually operate everything (though if you want to spend the money anything is possible)
designed for prime power, so running for weeks or months on end with just oil changes and basic maintenance is not a big deal.
Parts are less common, have to find them on the internet, though some are available through local parts stores.
very very loud and no real way to quiet it down to reasonable levels.
Basically, if all you're really planning for is the occasional outage that might last a few days but no more than a week, you have lots of refrigerated/frozen food, or have some other reason why the power MUST be on right away even if nobody is home and you are commonly a long distance away, the Generac is a decent way to go. Not the best generators in the world, but a decent product for the price. Generac also throws in an extended warranty with new gen install several times a year, so waiting for one of them you can get a 5, 7, or 10 year extended parts, labor, and travel covered for repairs warranty (standard is 2 years full coverage, 5 years for major component parts only)
If you are expecting TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) or expect power to be off for weeks at a time, you're not worried about the fridge/freezers too much or you don't travel too far away from home, don't care about noise, and don't need everything automated, plus have a decent understanding of how it works, ability to read repair manuals, and willing to spend some money to stockpile some common failure parts plus maintenance items, then the MEP is for you.
bones1
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Most excellent reply sir. You have convinced me to forget automating the process and better yet stick with the mep-003A I have. It is trailer-mounted and has the ASK kit on it so it's not terribly noisy. Now all I have to do is plug it in and test the 5 yr old setup.
I know this is a very aged thread, but I have a question/concern related to the earlier posts.
Scenario: “Separately derived system”
* Generator (MEP-002) neutral bonded and grounded at the generator.
* Utility service entrance, neutral bonded and grounded at service panel.
* Three pole double throw transfer switch (switching two “hots” and neutral).
* In the transfer switch you are “switching” the neutral and “hots” the ground is still common to the generator and the utility service all the time.
Confused on why that doesn’t pose a problem?
Scenario: “Separately derived system”
* Generator (MEP-002) neutral bonded and grounded at the generator.
* Utility service entrance, neutral bonded and grounded at service panel.
* Three pole double throw transfer switch (switching two “hots” and neutral).
* In the transfer switch you are “switching” the neutral and “hots” the ground is still common to the generator and the utility service all the time.
Confused on why that doesn’t pose a problem?
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Scoobyshep
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Because the neutral ground bond for the service is disconnected when the transfer switch is connected to generator.
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Yup, I'll admit I'm mildly confused.
So either you have a neutral/ground bond in the generator or you have it at the service entry breaker.
I mean, I know it isn't so much of a problem because the neutral and ground only have to be bonded in one location, what I don't get is why you are bothering to switch the neutral if the generator and service entrance are both neutral bonded, and then grounded to the transfer switch; even if you're switching the neutral you'll still show the exact same ground potential on either side of the neutral switch.
Scoobyshep
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The whole point to bonding neutral to ground is to ensure they are at the same potential. Switched neutral transfer switching is very rare (the only place ive seen it done is data centers and cell towers). Both methods are acceptable, but dont cross them.
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If you have a 3 pole tansfer switch you don't have to switch the neutral. I'd recommend only switching the two hots.
Angelo190471
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I just want to make sure im hooking this up correctly. I have it wired to my house panel with the interlock switch. Theres is 4 wires that go back to the generator (mep-003) The electrition was going to drive a ground rod and connect it to the ground at the frame. But Im confused about the neutral bond. It sounds like in my situation i need to disconnect it?
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Yes
Angelo190471
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And the ground rod to the frame is also correct?
All the threads talk about the neutral bond, but non of them have pictures. Is there a picture of where it is?
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Scoobyshep
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No ground rod to the frame. While it can be done without adversely impacting the way the ground is meant to work its nest to not alter your house grounding.
White wire to L0 Green/bare wire to chassis Line 1 to L1 line 2 to L3
The bond is usually wired off of L0 to the chassis.
White wire to L0 Green/bare wire to chassis Line 1 to L1 line 2 to L3
The bond is usually wired off of L0 to the chassis.
Angelo190471
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This one?
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No. Go to the Lo terminal and trace the wire that goes to the chassis. Should go to the back side of the ground stud, if I remember right.
Angelo190471
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That wire goes to the back side of the ground stud.
There's only one wire on l0 and it's hard to follow do to how much stuff is in there. Is it going to be inside the electric box?
Scoobyshep
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At this time I would also like to point out that when you disconnect this bond leave the generator hooked up. running it disconnected from the house and the bond disconnected will give you weird voltages (floating neutral).
Just something to keep in mind.