MEP-004A, No output

KLChurch

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battery 1.jpgbattery2.jpg

Purchased these batteries and installed.
Had to take the battery tray out because it was too small.
For some reason they are 1125 cranking amps instead of 1400.
Fired the gen off and it started charging the batteries at +10
Then after several mins the amp gage showed +7
Then after another 10 Mins it went to +6.
The gen fired off immediately like normal.
But the other batteries charged within a couple of mins.
Now it will take a lot longer. Don't know if this is good or bad.
So maybe I should either charge the batteries with a charger or just charge them with the gen.
Kris
 

peapvp

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Looks good, 1125 CCA is fine. Now you got the right size for your starter. I would charge them with the charger rather with the Genset without any load hooked up.

Progress is Good

View attachment 778619View attachment 778620

Purchased these batteries and installed.
Had to take the battery tray out because it was too small.
For some reason they are 1125 cranking amps instead of 1400.
Fired the gen off and it started charging the batteries at +10
Then after several mins the amp gage showed +7
Then after another 10 Mins it went to +6.
The gen fired off immediately like normal.
But the other batteries charged within a couple of mins.
Now it will take a lot longer. Don't know if this is good or bad.
So maybe I should either charge the batteries with a charger or just charge them with the gen.
Kris
 

Coug

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View attachment 778619View attachment 778620

Purchased these batteries and installed.
Had to take the battery tray out because it was too small.
For some reason they are 1125 cranking amps instead of 1400.
Fired the gen off and it started charging the batteries at +10
Then after several mins the amp gage showed +7
Then after another 10 Mins it went to +6.
The gen fired off immediately like normal.
But the other batteries charged within a couple of mins.
Now it will take a lot longer. Don't know if this is good or bad.
So maybe I should either charge the batteries with a charger or just charge them with the gen.
Kris
The 1400 was cranking amps at 32F (1380, it got rounded up), not the Cold Crank Amps at 0FThe charger will save you from wetstacking the engine and using unnecessary fuel.
Batteries that charge really quickly tend to have no actual capacity left in them. Think of it like this, take 2 1 liter bottles, crumple one up. Fill them both with water. The crumpled up one is still a 1 liter bottle, but doesn't actually hold 1 liter anymore, so it fills much faster than the uncrumpled one. So taking a while to charge is a good thing for batteries (as long as it's actually charging)
 

peapvp

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Kris, the original 6TMF Batteries are square and have 1010CCA standard or 1500CCA enhanced. The standard cost twice as much of what you paid for yours. You may want to make a holder bracket and clamp them in place.

5C8FFD50-CB7C-4714-93EE-DEECE12322C2.jpeg
 

peapvp

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Thanks Coug! In the end it may have been the batteries which caused the starting problems in the first place. As Coug explained, the old ones are probably toast now. So, it wasn’t the S2 switch after all.

The 1400 was cranking amps at 32F (1380, it got rounded up), not the Cold Crank Amps at 0FThe charger will save you from wetstacking the engine and using unnecessary fuel.
Batteries that charge really quickly tend to have no actual capacity left in them. Think of it like this, take 2 1 liter bottles, crumple one up. Fill them both with water. The crumpled up one is still a 1 liter bottle, but doesn't actually hold 1 liter anymore, so it fills much faster than the uncrumpled one. So taking a while to charge is a good thing for batteries (as long as it's actually charging)
 

peapvp

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Kris, I guess once you tie down the batteries and verify your IP leak washer fix then we are ready to start testing with a load. At one point or another we need to get a couple of hours of run time on your Genset.

The question arises now, what do you have available as load (preferably 3 Phase) to use as load bank?



Assuming!!! Test! Test a few times. Test when cold. Test when warm. Test two weeks from now. Then know what you have.
 

KLChurch

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Assuming!!! Test! Test a few times. Test when cold. Test when warm. Test two weeks from now. Then know what you have.
Assuming is defined as "Ass You Me" My mentor reminded me of that when I was in my 20s

Finally a cold front will be here today. So the temp will be in the 70s.
Will charge each battery separately to make sure both batteries charge the same way. (Don't know how long the batteries were setting on the shelf)
After I charge them, I will start the gen and witness the Amp gage to see how much it has to charge.

I'm thinking to install a breaker box on the gen itself, also install number 4 wires so I can connect it to my single phase transformer.
The gen is mounted on a trailer so if I have to, I can move it around my property, and connect it to a small stick welder. (30 AMP 240 volt)
So the breaker box would have 120 and 240 capability.

I have nothing here on my property that has 3 phase to test a 3 phase load except the 3 phase transformer to single phase.
Kris
 

KLChurch

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Update:
Charged the batteries separately.
One started at 90% full and the other 95%.
Took only a couple of mins at fast charge. (12 amps)
Then let them rest for an hour.
Connected them and started the gen.
The gen put a initial charge of +10
After a min it went down to +3
After 5 more mins went down to +2.5
After additional 5 mins it went up to +3
Looked at the fuel gage because the hour meter says it has been running over an hour since I've had it and it says I am still completely full of diesel.
Man it is nice outside. I love the fall.
I'm going to check the battery volts with my DMM & start installing the washer seals.
Kris
 

KLChurch

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I checked the batteries while installed.
Red on red, black on black. (Outputs to starter)
No DC volts with the Dmm.
What I'm I doing wrong?
Kris
Just checked the same way with my analogue meter and it says approx. 26 volts
I guess the DMM is getting confused or its me.
Kris
 
Last edited:

Guyfang

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I checked the batteries while installed.
Red on red, black on black. (Outputs to starter)
No DC volts with the Dmm.
What I'm I doing wrong?
Kris
Just checked the same way with my analogue meter and it says approx. 26 volts
I guess the DMM is getting confused or its me.
Kris
Check to see that you have the right setting and to see if the plugs are all the way in the DMM. You can also have a bad probe/wire/plug. Don't start making problems that aint there.
 

KLChurch

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Guy
I checked the DMM with a AAA battery and it said 1.559 dc volts
Ill try disconnecting the two large wires and see if the DMM is getting confused.
Kris
 

KLChurch

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I guess I'm the confused.
Their is an auto detected option on the tester.
When I turned it to volts instead of muli volts the auto detect turned off.
So I finally got a Reading 25.7 volts.
Kris
 

Guyfang

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Check to see that you have the right settings and to see if the plugs are all the way in the DMM. You can also have a bad probe/wire/plug. Don't start making problems that aint there.
This has to be the most often made mistake in the history of mankind. I will admit to maybe........................ once or twice doing the same thing. But only when I was young and dumb.

Its a shame you all could not see me as I finished the last sentence. I smiled and picked up my Obendorfer Edel Pils and killed it!
 

Coug

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Thanks Coug! In the end it may have been the batteries which caused the starting problems in the first place. As Coug explained, the old ones are probably toast now. So, it wasn’t the S2 switch after all.
I have one customer with a 30+ year old Generac diesel standby unit that would start just fine every time I was there to test it, but would fail to start at random other times. The company that worked on it before me charged them over $1600 to replace most of the fuel system.

After doing a few tests to over the course of a few weeks it I ended up installing a new battery, because the on that was in it had failed down to the point where it had enough juice in it to crank and start it some of the time, especially if tested on manual settings, but in automatic and being controlled by the transfer switch it didn't.

Sometimes just because it works when you try it doesn't actually mean it's in good enough shape to work the rest of the time.
 

KLChurch

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Coug
That's good to know.
Ive been texting Peter trying to trouble shoot the gen on Volts and hertz.
I will report the results in the morn because it will be lengthily.
But because Coug mentioned batteries I have been starting and stopping the gen several times with the two new more powerful batteries.
The last two times with a warm engine it cranked slower than any time than with the other batteries, also with a warm engine. And giving the time to recharge.
Will try to start the gen again in the morn.
This to me is illogical.
Kris
 

peapvp

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Generators in general have much much smaller alternators then cars or trucks as they were not designed for start and stop. The general rule of thumb on MEP’s with the correct battery size that they need to run for four hours after just one start to bring the charge of the batteries back to 100% and about 8 hours if the genset went through several start attempts or extreme cold weather.

Charging two large batteries connected in series will double the needed charging time. The current displayed on the charge indicator or ampmeter is misleading because you are charging a total of 12 cells instead of 6 cells in a single battery system.

constant trickle / float charging is your friend and a good trickle / float charger will do that without damaging the batteries.

The most often made mistake is the constant undercharging of the genset batteries. Nothing will kill
your batteries faster.

the math is simple:

each batterie has 120 amp hour capacity
thats 120 * 2 = 240 Ah

this means if your batteries connected in series are completely empty and you apply a charging current of 1 Amp then it will take 240 Hours to charge the batteries to 99.99%

at 10Amps it would take 24 hours

so take your time to charge your batteries properly

Coug
That's good to know.
Ive been texting Peter trying to trouble shoot the gen on Volts and hertz.
I will report the results in the morn because it will be lengthily.
But because Coug mentioned batteries I have been starting and stopping the gen several times with the two new more powerful batteries.
The last two times with a warm engine it cranked slower than any time than with the other batteries, also with a warm engine. And giving the time to recharge.
Will try to start the gen again in the morn.
This to me is illogical.
Kris
 
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