Another Ahab
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Hope it all went okay; anything to report?
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M1010 for my daughter the field biologist
- Thread starter jpg
- Start date
Before I removed the starter, I got one strong solenoid click every time I turned the key. If I tried that a few times, the starter would engage and start the truck. It started like that a few times, then all I got was the strong click. With the guidance above (thanks), I jacked up the frame enough to remove the starter. I didn't have enough jack & cribbing with me, I guess, so I couldn't get the starter past the drive shaft, but I got it removed enough to rotate it so I could see where the battery cable connected to the starter solenoid. It was all solid, so I taped up the missing insulation and re-installed the starter. A shim fell on my head at one point. I put it back where it came from, I think, with the notch around the big bolt nearest the oil pan, and the hole around the other big bolt.
I tried starting. I got one strong solenoid click, but no start. I tried again, and got a rapid 3 solenoid clicks, and then nothing. Now I don't even get the clicks.
I'd already exceeded what I was supposed to be doing, post-surgery, so I had it towed to the shop that does my inspections. Tune in next week for the next exciting episode...
I tried starting. I got one strong solenoid click, but no start. I tried again, and got a rapid 3 solenoid clicks, and then nothing. Now I don't even get the clicks.
I'd already exceeded what I was supposed to be doing, post-surgery, so I had it towed to the shop that does my inspections. Tune in next week for the next exciting episode...
Another Ahab
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rustystud
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What surgery did you have ?
rustystud
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My brother went through that a few years ago. Got the cancer from the "Agent Orange" used in Vietnam. The VA doesn't like that news to get out much, though they will admit the cause and effect if you push them.
Hope your feeling better soon.
Something bad happened to my electric system. New starter & solenoid got the starter working, but the 12V alternator is no longer producing electricity, and I no longer get a WAIT light...
I ordered another glowplug controller card from antennaclimber. Hoping it will be a spare, but I'm not optimistic...
I ordered another glowplug controller card from antennaclimber. Hoping it will be a spare, but I'm not optimistic...
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Another Ahab
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That stinks.
It appears that the connection from the top alternator to the battery vibrated loose, and running in that condition fried the top alternator. OK. While I await a replacement alternator, I charged the upper battery and tried to start. The solenoid chattered. I crawled under the truck and beat the starter with a hammer. Then it started right up.
The note below told me why the hammer trick works. But this is a new starter, so I called the guy who put it in for me. He agreed to replace it immediately, except the roof collapsed over his service bay and he'll have roofers there for the next 3 days.
So for the next few days, starting the truck requires a hammer and a jump box, in addition to the key. My wife just does not understand how this is fun... This week, it's getting harder to explain.
Embrace the suck? It's not just a truck, it's and adventure? That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger? This to shall pass? I'm not finding the right philosophy today...
The note below told me why the hammer trick works. But this is a new starter, so I called the guy who put it in for me. He agreed to replace it immediately, except the roof collapsed over his service bay and he'll have roofers there for the next 3 days.
So for the next few days, starting the truck requires a hammer and a jump box, in addition to the key. My wife just does not understand how this is fun... This week, it's getting harder to explain.
Embrace the suck? It's not just a truck, it's and adventure? That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger? This to shall pass? I'm not finding the right philosophy today...
rustystud
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Actually the hammer trick is more for the commutator not the solenoid. When the brushes and copper bars on the commutator get dirty or corroded you will not get enough current "flowing". So by whacking the starter housing your moving the shaft enough to be able to pick-up another bar on the commutator. You will still have the "bad" spot and the starter usually comes to rest in the same spot so your still having to whack the starter every time.
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I have also had the bad alternator/solenoid problem. In my case it's been either a bad starter , or a bad solenoid , but never both. If you have a spare solenoid (which is much cheaper than a starter) I'd try that.
Bulldogger
Bulldogger
I'm confused. Perhaps someone with more experience will read this and know what's wrong. My truck has the Plan B Mod -- no DUVAC, 24V lower alt, 12V upper alt. It also has the Doghead relay mod.
Here are things I know for sure: A battery terminal clamp failed -- it just broke. The starter fried itself. The 12V upper alternator fried itself. Something fried the Glowplug Controller card.
I replaced the broken battery terminal clamp, and had the starter replaced. When I had the truck towed to the shop for a new starter, the glow plug controller was fine. When I picked up the truck with its new starter, the glow plug controller and the 12V upper alternator were fried. I can't know for sure when the upper alternator died.
It may be that the alternator died first, and the starter failed because the front battery was depleted and the starter saw too little juice. Or maybe the shop did something to fry the alternator and GP controller. They deny this, of course.
When the upper alternator dies on the M1010, there are very few symptoms. The voltmeter continues to read 24V. The only real symptom is that the turn signal blinks more slowly, but by the time that's noticeable, the batter is pretty well depleted.
So the front battery got pretty heavily discharged, down to 11.8V. It sat that way for a few days in a parking lot while I waited for the new alternator to arrive. When it arrived, I drove to the truck, put jumper cables on the front battery and left the rescue vehicle running while I swapped out the alternator. The front battery was disconnected from the truck while I worked on the alternator. It was only connected to the jumper cables. By the time I got the new alternator in, the front battery was up to 12.5V.
I reconnected all the cables, and the truck started right up while still jumped. It took a little extra cranking, since I had no glow plug controller, but it started. Then I drove about 90 min on the interstate. The front battery then read 12.2V with the engine running. I read 66 amps from the upper alternator, with the engine idling. This from a 160A Leece Neville 110-555JHO. It's a 1190 amp-hour battery. 1190 amp-hours would take 7.5 hours at 160 amps. I drove for 3 hours and the battery was up to 12.5V. I put it on the trickle charger for the night.
So far, I've replaced the broken battery terminal clamp, wrapped a number of layers of electrical tape over a bare spot in the starter cable insulation, replaced the starter and the upper alternator. I use no-ox-ide on all the power connectors.
The mechanic who replaced the starter assured me the starter cable is in good shape, and did not need to be replaced. I'm planning to replace it anyway. I suspect the heat from the exhaust combined with old age caused the insulation to fail above the starter. I taped it thoroughly, but that's not a long term solution.
Tomorrow I'll take if for another long drive. If the voltages still look OK, I'm thinking it's probably safe to install the new GP controller. I'm reluctant to plug in my new $150 glow plug controller without understanding what fried the old one, and without confidence that the underlying problem is fixed.
Here are things I know for sure: A battery terminal clamp failed -- it just broke. The starter fried itself. The 12V upper alternator fried itself. Something fried the Glowplug Controller card.
I replaced the broken battery terminal clamp, and had the starter replaced. When I had the truck towed to the shop for a new starter, the glow plug controller was fine. When I picked up the truck with its new starter, the glow plug controller and the 12V upper alternator were fried. I can't know for sure when the upper alternator died.
It may be that the alternator died first, and the starter failed because the front battery was depleted and the starter saw too little juice. Or maybe the shop did something to fry the alternator and GP controller. They deny this, of course.
When the upper alternator dies on the M1010, there are very few symptoms. The voltmeter continues to read 24V. The only real symptom is that the turn signal blinks more slowly, but by the time that's noticeable, the batter is pretty well depleted.
So the front battery got pretty heavily discharged, down to 11.8V. It sat that way for a few days in a parking lot while I waited for the new alternator to arrive. When it arrived, I drove to the truck, put jumper cables on the front battery and left the rescue vehicle running while I swapped out the alternator. The front battery was disconnected from the truck while I worked on the alternator. It was only connected to the jumper cables. By the time I got the new alternator in, the front battery was up to 12.5V.
I reconnected all the cables, and the truck started right up while still jumped. It took a little extra cranking, since I had no glow plug controller, but it started. Then I drove about 90 min on the interstate. The front battery then read 12.2V with the engine running. I read 66 amps from the upper alternator, with the engine idling. This from a 160A Leece Neville 110-555JHO. It's a 1190 amp-hour battery. 1190 amp-hours would take 7.5 hours at 160 amps. I drove for 3 hours and the battery was up to 12.5V. I put it on the trickle charger for the night.
So far, I've replaced the broken battery terminal clamp, wrapped a number of layers of electrical tape over a bare spot in the starter cable insulation, replaced the starter and the upper alternator. I use no-ox-ide on all the power connectors.
The mechanic who replaced the starter assured me the starter cable is in good shape, and did not need to be replaced. I'm planning to replace it anyway. I suspect the heat from the exhaust combined with old age caused the insulation to fail above the starter. I taped it thoroughly, but that's not a long term solution.
Tomorrow I'll take if for another long drive. If the voltages still look OK, I'm thinking it's probably safe to install the new GP controller. I'm reluctant to plug in my new $150 glow plug controller without understanding what fried the old one, and without confidence that the underlying problem is fixed.
It's getting better. I now have 13V on the front battery and 14v on the back battery 5 minutes after turning off the truck after 90 minutes on the highway. The trickle charger has the recently-depleted front battery up to 13.9v, still in bulk mode. It switches to absorption at 14.4V, and then to 13.7 for maintenance.
I worry that the plan B mod overcharges the back battery when the front battery is depleted. Fortunately, this is a rare occurrence for me.
I notice that the 24V Voltmeter drops noticeably, about the width of the needle, when I turn on the headlights. You'd think a 160A 12V alternator would be able to keep up with this load. The fact that it does not makes me wonder even more about whether the Plan B Mod confuses the Voltage Regulators.
For the record, I note that the Leece Neville 110-555JHO alternator doesn't give the full range of adjustment on my M1010. It hits something (engine block?) at about 50% of the range of adjustment. This means I can't get the belt properly tightened. A belt that barely fits over the pulley at the min tension position (which should be the midpoint) isn't tight at the max tension position. I had to really abuse the belt to get it installed. It looks like I'm going to have to remove the alternator in order to install a smaller belt.
I worry that the plan B mod overcharges the back battery when the front battery is depleted. Fortunately, this is a rare occurrence for me.
I notice that the 24V Voltmeter drops noticeably, about the width of the needle, when I turn on the headlights. You'd think a 160A 12V alternator would be able to keep up with this load. The fact that it does not makes me wonder even more about whether the Plan B Mod confuses the Voltage Regulators.
For the record, I note that the Leece Neville 110-555JHO alternator doesn't give the full range of adjustment on my M1010. It hits something (engine block?) at about 50% of the range of adjustment. This means I can't get the belt properly tightened. A belt that barely fits over the pulley at the min tension position (which should be the midpoint) isn't tight at the max tension position. I had to really abuse the belt to get it installed. It looks like I'm going to have to remove the alternator in order to install a smaller belt.
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Over voltage and reverse voltage are the most common reasons for GP card failures.
Send me your card and I may be able to tell you what caused the failure.
It might even be repairable.
Send me your card and I may be able to tell you what caused the failure.
It might even be repairable.
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The new Glow Plug Controller works great. After a few days sitting in freezing temperatures, the truck starts *much* easier with the glow plugs. I was actually surprised how easily it started without the glowplugs. I normally crank for about half a second before it fires. Without the glowplugs, I had to do that 2-3 times, and it ran rough for a couple of seconds, but it started. It started so well, I never got around to installing the GP bypass so I could manually run the glow plugs. The new controller arrived before I had a chance to bypass the fried one.
My theory is that when the AZ battery clamp failed, that disconnected the running alternator from its battery. I know that will kill an alternator, but I'm not exactly clear how that also led to frying the starter solenoid and the GP controller. You can see into the hole where the starter terminal bolt used to be. The GP controller doesn't show any obvious burning. The alternator was old and ugly before, and shows no visible changes.
So it's time to build a good set of battery cables, with *really* robust battery clamps. I have a serious crimper. I'm reading the threads on this topic, looking for the right stuff to buy. I want to get a more heat resistant cable for the starter. The old insulation failed, sitting so close to the exhaust, even with the heat shield. I wrapped it in lots of electrical tape, but that's clearly a temporary solution.
My theory is that when the AZ battery clamp failed, that disconnected the running alternator from its battery. I know that will kill an alternator, but I'm not exactly clear how that also led to frying the starter solenoid and the GP controller. You can see into the hole where the starter terminal bolt used to be. The GP controller doesn't show any obvious burning. The alternator was old and ugly before, and shows no visible changes.
So it's time to build a good set of battery cables, with *really* robust battery clamps. I have a serious crimper. I'm reading the threads on this topic, looking for the right stuff to buy. I want to get a more heat resistant cable for the starter. The old insulation failed, sitting so close to the exhaust, even with the heat shield. I wrapped it in lots of electrical tape, but that's clearly a temporary solution.
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Just a guess, but maybe the insulation broke down because you were
running the starter multiple times in a row before you got the new glow plugs
installed.
running the starter multiple times in a row before you got the new glow plugs
installed.
No. The glow plug controller fried *after* I replaced the fried starter and the heat-damaged insulation. The glow plug system was healthy after the old starter fried. The new starter was healthy when the GP controller was fried.
I half suspect the shop that installed my new starter may have been careless and sent 24V where it didn't belong when they were replacing my starter. That could explain the death of the alternator and the GP controller. So could the broken battery terminal clamp. So many possibilities...
When I cranked 3 times due to no GP system, it was a half second each time, with a 10-20-second pause in between. That should not have unduly stressed the insulation.
I half suspect the shop that installed my new starter may have been careless and sent 24V where it didn't belong when they were replacing my starter. That could explain the death of the alternator and the GP controller. So could the broken battery terminal clamp. So many possibilities...
When I cranked 3 times due to no GP system, it was a half second each time, with a 10-20-second pause in between. That should not have unduly stressed the insulation.
cucvrus
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As you know the bolt on battery clamps are NOT the best way to go. They are only temporary and the do cause issues with the amperage that gets pulled thru the CUCV starting system. That can also cause damage to starters and electrical components. I always use the battery cable ends that are hollow on the end and come with a lead pellet that you melt into the end with the cable inside. Crimping/swaging is good as long as you have the correct gauge crimping/swaging tool. Over crimping/swaging is not good either. Good to hear you are up and around. Hope to see you wheeling again. Happy Holidays. Take care.
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I like that crimper. What is it?