M819 RECEIVES NTC400!!

[rizzo]

No.2,
I found my 3406E and can get either a 7 or 9 speed with it. How are you getting around the air valves on the tranny for the transfer case? I don't mean to hijack but you seem to have this thing figured out! Thanks for any help......

I have a 2 position air switch in my gas powered 5 ton. "off" position vents the air. you have to remember to have the switch in the proper position for forward or reverse travel, but since most of the time you do not need FWD it should not be a big deal. I really like having the "off" or "neutral" position

 

[No.2Diesel]

Buggyman said: "you seem to have this thing figured out!"

I'd like to let everyone know that, NO I certainly don't have everything figured out! We have the big picture in mind but as you know all the little things have to be solved as they surface.

Outstanding issues to resolve include:
-Clutch actuation
-Selection of a brake treadle valve w/proportioning valve.
-Plumbing of entire pneumatic system, Air tanks etc.
-Maintaining use of air assisted sprag or not
-Plumbing of RoadRanger air lines
-Fabrication of new T-case mounts
-Fabrication of rear Transmission support bracket
-Re-do of floor pan to clear RoadRanger
-Obtaining a new PTO if required for Front Winch
-Utilizing and plumbing of a transmission and transfercase cooler
-etc. etc.

 

[TheBuggyman]

No.2,

What if you (and I) used a 24v solenoid actuated air valve with three positions? If these transmissions use a reverse actuated switch then when this wire is hot it would energize one end of the solenoid sending air to throw the sprag to the reverse position, when the solenoid is without power (not in reverse) it would drive to a centered position using an internal spring to send air to the sprag putting it the foward drive position. When a switch is thrown on the dash it would energize the opposite end of the solenoid and dump the air to put the sprag in the neutral position. That way even if you forgot to put the sprag to the neutral position it would still operate as designed. Of course this would only work with a reverse light switch on the transmission, does you RR13 have this switch?

BTW, I believe that the dash switch would have to have two sets of N.O. and N.C. contacts to disable the reverse signal if you did not want the front axle to drive when selected for a "neutral" sprag position.

Is this making any sense or should I be commited?

 

[No.2Diesel]

We all should be commited (catatonic)......

Yeah that makes perfect sense. That way you don't have to think about it and it operates like before. I'll be tearing the tranny apart to inspect this weekend. I thought I saw a reverse "ball" switch. I'll dig through the pdfs installation guide.

 

[TheBuggyman]

Cool,
Would you happen to know the gear ratios of the 809's stock 5-speed? I need to compare it to the other transmissions.

 

[No.2Diesel]

Buggyman, after searching for an hour on this site and the web I came up with nothing regarding the 6453's exact gear ratios. The Eaton site offers info for similar 5 & 6spds but nothing for Spicers.

Although not exactly the same here are the Deuce's 3053A ratios so you get an idea of the spread:

1st--6.00, 2nd--3.31, 3rd--1.89, 4th--1.00, 5th--.79, Rev--5.90

What I can provide for you is the gear ratios of the 13spd that is the subject of this project:

Low-----12.31 : 1.00
1st------8.59
2nd-----6.11
3rd------4.43
4th------3.23
----------------RangeShift
5thLo---2.28
5thHi---1.94
6thLo---1.62
6thHi---1.38
7thLo---1.17
7thHi---1.00
8thLo----.86
8thHi-----.73

RevLo----13.22
RevHi-----3.50

 

[TheBuggyman]

No.2,
I searched till past my bedtime also and didn't find squat either. I suppose the biggest thing I must do is make sure that the overdrive ratio of the transmissions match and that the new engine is set up for a 2100 rpm max rpm. That way I'll be able to keep my 55mph cruise speed, I'm not concerned about going faster with the 14R20's.

 

[No.2Diesel]

Small update

Hi,

It was rainy & windy this past weekend so it was perfect weather to fiddle around with mechanicals. We're a little closer at mating the engine to the transmission.

-Seperated 13spd. from old NTC-350 and pressurewashed
-Removed clutch assembly from 350
-Removed aluminum SAE No.2 clutch housing from 350
-Removed oil pan & rocker covers on 400 to inspect

It has been found that the 400 is setup with a cast iron SAE No.1 Clutch housing so we'll use the alum. No.2 from the 350. It has also been observed that a dual 15" disc clutch assembly is utilized on these beefier trannie engine combos. When the flywheels were pulled, hot spots were found but no warping was found. The clutch discs don't look too bad. We'll keep as emergency spares and have the flywheels machined and get new clutches. Its a Reman. Lipe seup. (We'll look into self adj. clutch assemblies.)

A bit of good news was the confirmation that the actuation of the clutch linkage is the same as the Spicer 5spd. (CounterClockwise)

As far as the engine is concerned, It seems brand new. No foreign objects, filings, etc. were found in the pan. Probably just run at the factory. The oil still has an amber color to it. There are also no stampings on the pan rail, connecting rods, or Main Caps to indidcate that any bearing journal size was over/undersized. There are no reman. tags anywhere on the engine and nothing of this nature on the engine tag.

The game plan for the transmission is to replace the input/output seals as well as the gaskets. One of the rear support bolts needs to be easy-outed and the threads repaired.

*From the mounting surface of the bellhousing to the centerline of the U-joint hole on the yoke, this distance is 38.375" Roughly 10"+/- longer than the Spicer 5spd.

Enjoy the pics!

 

[No.2Diesel]

Some pics of the 400

 

[mightyhammer]

Hey will you hurry up and get this done so I can use your experience on mine....LOL...JK

 

[No.2Diesel]

VERY SMALL UPDATE

Things are progressing nice and slowly. Thanks for your and everyone's interest. After we're done we'll open up our own version of "M-series Rebuild"

-An early Christmas package from Sam Winer is expected to arrive within the week that contains 900 series front axle brake parts We also got a gasket & seal kit for the 12513, an oil pan gasket for the 400. The truck is here now so disassembly has started.

-Next thing on the list is to get the flywheel cut and purchase a new Dual disc clutch assembly. ( Aprox. $759 )

-Should be some good activity this weekend with some pics.

 

[joec]

You done Yet.?????


LOL..LOL...Good luck Been watching the updates..

 

[No.2Diesel]

Taking it Apart

Here is an update from Thanksgiving weekend:

-It took one day to remove the sheetmetal, cab, & engine/tranny. Still to be removed is the front winch, transfer case, 5th wheel, fuel tank, etc. I still haven't gotten around to making a fork bucket for the JD crawler but it did pretty well. It lifted the engine/tranny like it was nothing.

-Instead of constructing some huge gantry crane when it comes time to install the new drivetrain, we'll just carefully use the crawler and move the entire truck back and forth for lateral adjustments

-Its always fun taking things apart until you realize that now everything has to be cleaned, repaired and put back together and its not going to just go back without some customizing. Visualizing the end product is what keeps you going.

-Soon we'll have to setup a temp. tent garage over the forward section of the frame to have better working conditions over the winter.

*While viewing the following photos, please take note of the following: thearea of the truck from the back of the engine to the transfer case. This is where 90% of the fabrication & modifications will take place to allow the fitment of the new drivetrain. Also look at the cab floorpan, cab crossmember and the T-shaped angle bracket that crosses the frame. This is the mounting point for three bellcranks and levers for the: Fr. Winch, Crane PTO, & T-Case. This will undoubtedly require modifications. Also note the NHC250 front motor mount.

Enjoy the pics.

 

[No.2Diesel]

More Pics

Here ya go: Enjoy.

 

[No.2Diesel]

*Thanks guys for the continued interest in this project. I forgot to add these pics:

Our Sam Winer care package arrived. (900 series front axle brake parts)

The Brockway donor truck mentioned earlier in this thread just happened to have Rockwell rears. They, along with 800 and 900 series 5ton axles all have the same backing plate bolt pattern diameter of approx 8" as well as the same drum diameter of 15".

So....were gonna purchase 6 new or used 900 series drums for front and rear. (900's use a wider 7" shoe) and ditch the 800 drums. Then bolt the backing plates and parts from the Brockway rockwells onto the rear axles and the 900 stuff to the front axle. (the rears have service and emergency caged canisters.)

How does that sound? ........

 

[mangus580]

Dare I ask what we are hiding in the pictures?

 

[BFR]

why is the 5th wheel being removed?

 

[No.2Diesel]

I'm hiding the sky


Were removing the 5th wheel so we can take it apart,wire wheel and grease it so it is fully functioning. It looks like its been used twice in its life.

 

[mangus580]

Must be some special sky!!!

 

[Lex_Ordo]

Wow Dave! Rob told me but until I saw the Pics I really didn't know what t o expect. That is going to be an unbelieveable truck man.